What do people mean by “identify as”?

It really means "I identify with set x of stereotypes".

What they think it means "I am x".

[Got a bit long. Tldr: for identity wrt persons, read John Locke and Derek Parfit. Many trans ideologues just make mistakes. ]

It may be of interest to try to track some of the history of 'identity' in something like the way people try to use it now. Why 'identity', and what has its use for persons to do with its other (major?) use to mean the relation of being the same?

Two things are identical if they are the same. Cue lots of philosophical musings, one particular set of which is to do with so-called 'personal' identity.

A good place to start with this might be John Locke, who added a chapter in his book An Essay Concerning Human Understanding (Book 2 Chapter 27, 1694) on what people describe as the "persistence conditions" (or "conditions of diachronic identity") for persons.

This sounds terribly technical, but really it isn't at all. The question Locke and others want to try and answer is just this: "What makes me (or any person for that matter) the same person as I was yesterday ... or last week, or sixty years ago when I got married, or ... well, just what is it that makes me be the same ('identical') person as I always was in the past and will be in the future, even as I change various aspects of my body and personality, grow old and so on?"

This question - what makes me the same person over time - might be glossed as, 'What is it that makes me who I am? - What is it that makes me, me?"

This is the philosophical problem of personal identity. Of course it has practical aspects as well as sheer intellectual curiosity driving it. Is that old person, Fritz, the same person as that young man who was a concentration camp guard in 1944? How do we decide? And so what? ... Am I really the same person as when I was a religious believer, all those years ago? ... Is this person, Claudette, the same person as Claude, who you say attacked you that evening? ... and so on.

These are questions of personal identity. Interesting, important questions, with ethical and moral import as well as metaphysical (and logico-semantic and so on, perhaps depending on your philosophical bent).

OK, now the idea of 'identity' in this sense has undergone a bit of slippage. So we talk about ID ('Identity') cards, for instance - cards we can use to identify ourselves, to say who we are, forgetting the origin of the term in the sense of 'what makes me the same over time'. And so on.

And 'identity politics'? Sometimes consciously, other times not, people having no real answer to Locke's question encourage this slippage into talk of what makes a person be the person he or she is, independently of any reference to the kind of diachronous identity (of what makes one be the same over time) Locke was talking about.

What is it that makes me the person I am? Lots of answers can be offered. But, anyway, that is what my identity is, in this sense.

Of course what many people (amongst which almost all trans people and their apologists) mistake about this is the possibility of error in self-ascription of this sense of identity. For most X, the claim "I identify as X," as it turns out, is no guarantee, even if sincerely offered, that I am even X at all, much less that X is a persistence condition for my personhood.

[Oh, and that spinning sound you hear? That comes from John Locke's grave.]

[More seriously, if you want some more recent material about personal identity, try Derek Parfit's Reasons and Persons (1984). I don't say Parfit gets everything right, but he's always worth reading. Dead now, of course. But not as long ago as Locke.]

Pickled's post was on page two. I thought I'd linked it but obviously not.

Thanks, Pickled. You put this very well and it resonates with me. I have a choice about 'identifying as' a particular ethnic identity because it is part of my DNA and background but I don't 'identify as' it in most public contexts because it's not relevant (I don't speak the languages, it wasn't a part of my culture as a child and it is not readily discernable from looking at me). I do feel for a parent (now deceased) who was forced to identify as 'white British' even though this parent wasn't - they were forced to keep their ethnic and cultural identity silent for fear of racism and also because of the family's internal racism. When dementia hit they forgot all about that and 'identified' as their 'real' and very complex identity. Sometimes I feel like saying 'sod it' and identifying as that publicly in their memory but it isn't accurate and so I don't. When asked to explain my background and family in less official contexts though I do weave this identity as part of the story.

When people use the term 'identity' in the context of gender, I interpret it as 'playing at' or 'dressing up as', in the same way a toddler 'identifies' a superhero by putting on a mask and a cape.
And, tbh, if that's what floats your boat, then crack on, fill your boots, knock yourself out!
But, you are not that thing and I will not validate you.
And men do not get to enter women's spaces or seek to erase women or trample on our rights.

I think 'I identify as' (in the case of gender id) is going around saying you are something. You may not be what you claim, and in that case it also seems to mean you are expecting/demanding others (including the apparently only too willing state) go along with your claim. Irrespective of the coach and four you may put through the rights of others in society. For some reason, governments etc, have decided they would enforce these claims with legislation. They didn't do that for that lady in the US (Dolezal), or people who identify as a different age. Or, in the case of disability for disability allowance purposes. etc. etc.

Nothing changes your sex; not even a good cosmetic approximation. Even Prof Winston felt that needed to be said out loud, and he used a more forthright term than cosmetic approximation.

My personal opinion in that situation is that it is duplicitous for the state and organisations to sanction this. Billy Connolly had a joke about people who say/think they are Jesus. People go around saying many things, but society doesn't have to be complicit when it comes to upholding 'identity' claims which are problematic, and stomp on the rights of others.

I cannot say I understand it, but I do prefer that people say “I identify as” rather than “I am” in these cases.

I saw a video of a trans woman explaining being trans to a woman with SEN on a YouTube channel. (SEN woman was interviewing the trans woman.). She said being trans means she wishes she was a woman. Seemed to strongly acknowledge that she is not actually a woman, but prefers to live as one. She also talked about the importance of being clear with medical professionals. Because her body has different needs and different problems than a woman’s body. Very reasonable, I thought. But later I read things indicating that the trans woman got woked out of her own organization - the one she founded to support the trans community. So it seems the reasonable voices are being silenced.

It’s a symptom not the root cause. The root cause of the phrase ‘I identify as’ being given the time of day by anyone at all, is a bizarre and solipsistic philosophy that feelings* should be held as far more important than facts.

*just men’s feelings though obviously

Didn't we used to call this "individual personality"?
And it meant anyone of either sex could have any interests they liked without anyone having to put a label on themselves, and place themselves into a restricting box?

Be any personality you want, I say. Dress however you want. Enjoy whatever interests engage you.

Just keep separate single-sex spaces where such spaces are important for the safety, dignity and privacy of the aforementioned two sexes. This is important. Because sex matters.

Theres no blood test , no brain scan , no proof gender identity even exists beyond a few spoken words.

vs millions of years of proof if biological reality.

Those who peddle gender are people who profit from gender ideology. "Training " charity funding, private drs and , pharmaceutical companies who profit from the creation of life long medical.patients. it seemingly also only seems to exist in rich Western countries or countries where being gay gets you killed.

Imagine the good some if these lobby groups could do if they went to countries that killed baby girls and made them realise they could be throwing boys on the trash heap. All the babies that could be saved.

Instead they spend their time trying to shut down womens spaces. Says all you need to know.

I CAN DRIVE CARS NOW?!?!

Why did nobody tell me, I thought I was destined to be pedestrigender for ever.

No amount of surgery or drugs can change a female to a male.

Sweet Jesus, all that identifying as sounds utterly exhausting! How do you have the time to live your life??

A wise psychiatrist once said to me that it’s never helpful to indulge or encourage delusional thinking - no matter how hard that may be for the person with the delusion.

I refuse to answer any of the ‘identify as’ questions, because I don’t buy in to gender ideology. I don’t care what others feel the need to declare they ‘identify’ as (spoiler: you’re neither interesting or special), my issue arises when I’m expected to validate them. I’ll use whatever name they choose to call themselves, and I’ll be polite and respectful as long as I get the same in return, but beyond that … No.

I identify as someone who doesn't have MS. Isn't that how it works? Isn't that how you get to ignore biological reality.
Before anyone shouts at me, I'm thinking of that obnoxious writing prize thing where they said it was for people who self identify as disabled or with a chronic condition.

A specific person? Or are you taking responsibility for all trans peoples’ reality?

I identify as a genius.

Thinking about it, everyone is gender fluid. Both sexes wear trousers, cook, drive cars, go out to work, wear blue, etc

To identify is a verb. You have to be actively doing something. Ie. Actively identifying, or aligning yourself with , in this case, a gender.

I don’t go around actively thinking, i’m a female gender, and force myself to wear pink, do the cooking, wear dresses etc. I ‘am’ a woman, not think I am.

Also, a week ago we were all cheering the Lionesses in the Woman euros. But football is traditionally a male gender activity, so were the Lionesses identifying as men in the Woman’s Euros…

This isn't policing how someone feels though.

Its policing someones grip on reality
Because if they don't have one they need help. Not for those around them to shrug and say " maybe he does feel like a man"

But that doesn’t matter, he thinks he does! So again, a better use of time would be to leave him to it but focus on where those feelings start to infringe on the rights of others. You can’t police how people say they feel, you’ll go mad.

Why do you even need a label like gender fluid? Sounds like nonsense to me