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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

938 replies

aseriesofstillimages · 07/08/2022 12:36

I have seen various people on this forum say that to be gay or a lesbian is to be ‘exclusively same sex attracted’, and that therefore, for example, a woman who is attracted to or in a relationship with a trans woman cannot correctly describe herself as a lesbian.

Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity, I can’t see how this absolutist approach is logically sustainable. If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women, but then am attracted to and get off with a woman in a bar who I subsequently find out is trans, do I immediately stop being a lesbian? What if I don’t stop finding the trans woman attractive after learning that she’s trans? What if I never find out she was trans - is it the case that I have ceased being a lesbian, but will never know this?

OP posts:
macj1 · 24/08/2022 13:12

'I have a wonderful female partner, who I’ve been with for many years. Before her, I had a lovely boyfriend for several years, who I was also very attracted to.'

You say it loud and clear. You are attracted to men & women. That's bisexual - enjoy and be proud.

Nothing to do with having and raising CHILDREN for goodness' sake! This is a chat about same-sex attraction, adult relationships - love making - the constant craving that KD Lang sang about - delight & desire -

That's why I'm jealous of straight men - they get to date women and admit their attraction as a birthright.

It's why we're often jealous of Gold Start lesbians - they never had to go through the disgusting part to get to women. If I could obliterate the memory of the men I had to engage with on my route to women, I would - and I haven't met any lesbians who were less 'absolute' and 'clear' than this.

I have met bisexual women who waver more, obviously.

Would you be asking a Gay man why he wasn't attracted to women? Wasn't this the entire running joke of a comedy show, 'Gimme Gimme Gimme'?

This should all be a big joke and sadly it's not. No long-running comic show for us, just the invasion of our former lesbian clubs and spaces by the repulsive and repellent.

I'll keep using this clear language because it might help comprehension.

We're lesbians; just get over it already.

ErrolTheDragon · 24/08/2022 13:11

The whole point of this thread was about respecting the ability of women who consider themselves to be lesbians to define their own sexuality if they consider trans women to be women and are attracted to trans women.

People can define (or rather, simply, have) their own sexuality. But that doesn't mean they can redefine words with specific meanings necessary to a specific group.

Men can't redefine the word woman. Women who aren't same-sex attracted shouldn't redefine the word lesbian - whyever do that, when other appropriate terms such as bisexual, pan, homogenderal exist?

Artichokeleaves · 24/08/2022 13:10

And what’s wrong with pointing out that anyone with a son - lesbian or not - is unlikely to be ‘disgusted by all male bodies’? There is a big gap between ‘attracted to/aroused by’ and ‘repulsed and disgusted by’.

If you have a challenge with literal comprehension and needing very explicit phrasing to be used, it would have been helpful to explain this. Because this appears really offensive.

We are talking explicitly and solely about physical attraction to someone who may be a sexual partner.

My takeaway from what you are saying here is that:

  • you aren't disgusted by male bodies such as your child's so you're not disgusted by male bodies as sexual partners are you
  • it's weird and wrong to feel like this.
Your internalised homophobia is off the scale here OP. You are on a mission to try and reframe homosexuality as bisexuality, and to make it very clear that homosexual females are a minority of weirdos who really need to stop.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/08/2022 13:09

The whole point of this thread was about respecting the ability of women who consider themselves to be lesbians to define their own sexuality if they consider trans women to be women and are attracted to trans women.

We don't get to make up our own versions of words and expect other people to use them. Lesbian has a meaning, which is important to lesbians. Bisexual also does.

aseriesofstillimages · 24/08/2022 13:08

ErrolTheDragon · 24/08/2022 13:07

I don’t think that many of the lesbians I know shudder just at the thought of a male body, and are disgusted and repulsed by all male bodies. I’m not arguing pp doesn’t feel that way, just that this isn’t necessarily true of all lesbians.

And? What's the actual point of that contribution other than what we all know, that people are different from one another. Maybe some lesbians are disgusted and repulsed by the bodies of all adult males. Maybe some are not actively repulsed, but never remotely attracted. So what?

So pp was suggesting this is the case for all lesbians, and that this is somehow related to the fact that no lesbian can be attracted to a trans woman.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/08/2022 13:07

I don’t think that many of the lesbians I know shudder just at the thought of a male body, and are disgusted and repulsed by all male bodies.

But you don't know what they feel, and they're arguably unlikely to tell bisexuals or straight people if they did 🤷‍♀️

aseriesofstillimages · 24/08/2022 13:07

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/08/2022 12:53

Why do you think you can negotiate with people what feelings they are allowed to have about people they aren't attracted to, because they are exclusively attracted to the opposite sex to those people?

I’m not telling anyone what feelings they are allowed to have. The whole point of this thread was about respecting the ability of women who consider themselves to be lesbians to define their own sexuality if they consider trans women to be women and are attracted to trans women. All these other points that keep coming up, and that I’m responding to, have been brought in by other people.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 24/08/2022 13:07

I don’t think that many of the lesbians I know shudder just at the thought of a male body, and are disgusted and repulsed by all male bodies. I’m not arguing pp doesn’t feel that way, just that this isn’t necessarily true of all lesbians.

And? What's the actual point of that contribution other than what we all know, that people are different from one another. Maybe some lesbians are disgusted and repulsed by the bodies of all adult males. Maybe some are not actively repulsed, but never remotely attracted. So what?

PeriodBro · 24/08/2022 13:04

We are talking about sexual attraction, OP. As in the title of your post. So yes, just presume that most posts are talking in that context.

PeriodBro · 24/08/2022 13:04

We are talking about sexual attraction, OP. As in the title of your post. So yes, just presume that most posts are talking in that context.

aseriesofstillimages · 24/08/2022 13:01

Artichokeleaves · 24/08/2022 12:47

So no, I can’t understand what it’s like to be repulsed by men’s bodies.

This would be because you are bi then and not homosexual. You are not exclusively same sex attracted. Your sexuality is different to women trying to talk to you here.

Which is why they need their word and their own term for it to avoid this ridiculous confusion and reframing which leads directly to pressure on them to stop being homosexual and move towards sexual accessibility to males.

I’m not sure that many of the lesbians I know feel that strongly.

Evidently some do though don't they? Since they're here telling you. Are you implying that exclusive homosexuality/inability to be aroused or at all attracted to male bodies is odd and wrong? Isn't that just flat out homophobia?

And I’m assuming you mean just in a sexual context? I’m sure the lesbians I know who have sons aren’t repulsed by their bodies.

...........you what? Confused Angry Are you serious?

We’re not just talking about not being at all attracted to or aroused my make bodies though, what the pp said was:

The thought of a man's body is physically repulsive and disgusting to a lesbian. Every single thing about it. Just generates a shudder.

I don’t think that many of the lesbians I know shudder just at the thought of a male body, and are disgusted and repulsed by all male bodies. I’m not arguing pp doesn’t feel that way, just that this isn’t necessarily true of all lesbians. And what’s wrong with pointing out that anyone with a son - lesbian or not - is unlikely to be ‘disgusted by all male bodies’? There is a big gap between ‘attracted to/aroused by’ and ‘repulsed and disgusted by’.

OP posts:
QueenHippolyta · 24/08/2022 12:59

@macj1
We've been tactful for far too long. .

The thought of a man's body is physically repulsive and disgusting to a lesbian. Every single thing about it. Just generates a shudder.

Right on my Lesbian sister. We're telling it like it is!
We need to do it for the sake of our young Lesbians who need
us to stand up for them! Empower them to say: NO!

And to all the young girls to say NO! to transwomen in women's bathrooms, changing rooms, sports teams. rape shelters, women's prizes/scholarships/places

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/08/2022 12:53

To OP.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/08/2022 12:53

Why do you think you can negotiate with people what feelings they are allowed to have about people they aren't attracted to, because they are exclusively attracted to the opposite sex to those people?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/08/2022 12:50

Obviously this is going to go to 1k.

DarkDayforMN · 24/08/2022 12:50

And I’m assuming you mean just in a sexual context? I’m sure the lesbians I know who have sons aren’t repulsed by their bodies.

WTF. This thread is entirely absurd. What woman thinks this way?

Beowulfa · 24/08/2022 12:48

29 pages and still some people insist that lesbians can like cock as much as fannies.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/08/2022 12:47

Sorry Artichoke cross posted, post was for OP.

ErrolTheDragon · 24/08/2022 12:47

Is this thread basically all because the OP is bisexual (which for the avoidance of doubt is absolute fine, obviously) but with a curious inability to understand that other people are different? Exclusive same-sex attraction exists. So does exclusive opposite sex attraction. What is there to 'understand'? Just accept that's other people's reality.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/08/2022 12:47

Why do you keep projecting your bisexual orientation on to people who are exclusively same or opposite sex attracted?

Artichokeleaves · 24/08/2022 12:47

So no, I can’t understand what it’s like to be repulsed by men’s bodies.

This would be because you are bi then and not homosexual. You are not exclusively same sex attracted. Your sexuality is different to women trying to talk to you here.

Which is why they need their word and their own term for it to avoid this ridiculous confusion and reframing which leads directly to pressure on them to stop being homosexual and move towards sexual accessibility to males.

I’m not sure that many of the lesbians I know feel that strongly.

Evidently some do though don't they? Since they're here telling you. Are you implying that exclusive homosexuality/inability to be aroused or at all attracted to male bodies is odd and wrong? Isn't that just flat out homophobia?

And I’m assuming you mean just in a sexual context? I’m sure the lesbians I know who have sons aren’t repulsed by their bodies.

...........you what? Confused Angry Are you serious?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/08/2022 12:45

So no, I can’t understand what it’s like to be repulsed by men’s bodies

Yes, you're bisexual. As you make clear. Bisexual is the term for someone attracted to both sexes. Unlike straight, gay or lesbian.

aseriesofstillimages · 24/08/2022 12:41

macj1 · 24/08/2022 12:20

Thanks - I thought my post would get taken down - for saying the quiet part out loud. For the love that (today) cannot speak its name.

This regressive nonsense. I wonder about the OP's experience with women/men and how she can post this question after enjoying even one night with a woman.

I've always been far to o polite to straight men who ask me the stupid 'how come you're a lesbian' question.

I've never told a single straight man the total truth.

We've been tactful for far too long. They've driven a coach and horses through tact. They need to be told simply, loud and clear.

The thought of a man's body is physically repulsive and disgusting to a lesbian. Every single thing about it. Just generates a shudder.

But to wake up with a woman - my wife now - that's just a daily intense blissful delight.

They never use that kind of language - it's all esoteric and academic. As though they make love with a text book or just with themselves, at a screen.....

I have a wonderful female partner, who I’ve been with for many years. Before her, I had a lovely boyfriend for several years, who I was also very attracted to. We were never able to have penetrative sex because of physiological issues of mine, and he was always entirely understanding and respectful of that. So no, I can’t understand what it’s like to be repulsed by men’s bodies. I’m not sure that many of the lesbians I know feel that strongly. And I’m assuming you mean just in a sexual context? I’m sure the lesbians I know who have sons aren’t repulsed by their bodies.

OP posts:
macj1 · 24/08/2022 12:20

Thanks - I thought my post would get taken down - for saying the quiet part out loud. For the love that (today) cannot speak its name.

This regressive nonsense. I wonder about the OP's experience with women/men and how she can post this question after enjoying even one night with a woman.

I've always been far to o polite to straight men who ask me the stupid 'how come you're a lesbian' question.

I've never told a single straight man the total truth.

We've been tactful for far too long. They've driven a coach and horses through tact. They need to be told simply, loud and clear.

The thought of a man's body is physically repulsive and disgusting to a lesbian. Every single thing about it. Just generates a shudder.

But to wake up with a woman - my wife now - that's just a daily intense blissful delight.

They never use that kind of language - it's all esoteric and academic. As though they make love with a text book or just with themselves, at a screen.....

GertrudeKerfuffle · 24/08/2022 12:17

macj1 · 24/08/2022 11:20

FROM THE OP: 'Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity, I can’t see how this absolutist approach is logically sustainable.'

To flip this, try asking your husbands/male partners if they were on a desert island, would they, for example, want to make love with Caitlyn Jenner??? Would they crave being intimate with any other well known Transwomen?

Are straight men being accused of 'restricting their dating pool' or 'being absolutist'?

Women can spot men at 50 yards, it's how we survived and evolved as a species. Nobody on this thread has tackled the simple fact of same sex attraction - I think Virginia Woolf wrote something along the lines that the remarkable thing about Sapphics was that they really LOVE women. We physically crave and love women in the way that straight women must love every physical aspect of a man - the smell of his skin, the sound of his voice. We all make love with our five senses - for lesbians to be accused of 'absolutism' is ridiculous -

After my first night with a woman I was in awe and almost jealous of straight men - I thought, 'They get to have this experience, to be able to be with a woman, just like that'....whilst I had gone through years of struggle and disgusting attempts at being with men to get to that first blissful night.

As everyone on this thread is terribly cautious, I'll say the hard bit out loud - to a lesbian, men are physically repulsive. If they weren't, I'd have loved to have been straight, happily married etc etc. Instead I've led a very different life - and now happily married to a woman, I still shudder with disgust at memories of the truly dreadful physical relationships that I had with men, before I came out.

So we have two choices as lesbians in our dating lives - to be

a) Repulsed. Revolted. Disgusted.
OR
b) Delighted, entranced, sensually ecstatic.

For the sake of someone's 'identity' young lesbians are supposed to choose a)???

If a man who suffers from gender dysphoria deserves all our sympathy - as he undergoes changes to make his life more bearable, he is still a biological man - under the clothing and despite any surgery (which I understand that 90% do not go ahead with).

We are not 'assuming to correct' anyone's 'identity' - we have, as teenagers or young women, come into our own identity - as same sex attracted. To endure the whole coming out/first loves/having to come out over and over/finally be allowed to marry --- and then at the end of all this, be told that we were mistaken, and we should have found men's bodies attractive in the first place - if only we would 'set aside our presumptions'....

You cannot set aside physical revulsion.
A biological man - no matter what his 'identity' or the investment he has made in dealing with his dysphoria - can never, ever, taste, feel, sound or smell like a woman. Ask your straight boyfriends & husbands....

Our senses cannot be obliterated to assist with a man's psychological problems.

Hear, hear 👏