Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

I think had the TQ+ queer theory political movement demonstrated an ability to care about and respect other people's identities and words and cultures and groups, had they had the faintest interest in others apart from themselves and their wishes and desires, those groups would never have needed to make their boundaries clear

This is brilliantly put.

Lets be honest OP, men always knew there's no such thing as a Lesbian, Lesbians are just bitches withholding the sex from decent men because all women need dick in their lives.
Well done for believing that bollocks

If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women

You mean a lesbian? Do you see why that word is so useful now? Having nouns, and other defined words, cuts out verbiage by no longer needing to describe a phenomena in long descriptive text.

Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity

Then goes on to correct lesbian's understanding of their own sexuality/identity

Maybe instead of setting aside those problems OP you should actually look at the first, then maybe you will understand why it is so problematic telling lesbians they should just accept sex with a dick.

Oh you can find tweets flat out celebrating homophobia and saying it's time it was something to be proud of if it prevents homosexual females withholding sex from males who want to have sex with a lesbian.

The basic fact seems to escape the tweeters that anyone who believes that you providing them with sex whether or not you want to is a social duty on you (and they have no reciprocal responsibilities to you), who believes that sex is about you meeting their needs and has zero interest in your pleasure or consent as their partner, and who comes from a political position encouraging you to 'learn to cope' with unwanted, disliked sex is not relationship material regardless of their sex or gender identity. Run a mile from anyone who treats others like this.

You may also like to look at some of the rape fantasies shared on Twitter by some of those who have been at the forefront of this 'you can learn to put up with straight sex if you try and it's transphobic of you not to' movement against homosexual females. You really don't have to look very far. At least one who has posted articles in lesbian magazines 'encouraging' homosexual women to get straight for the sake of TQ+ male people has shared punishment rape fantasies regarding those homosexual women who want to - well. Go on being homosexual, basically.

Somewhere you'll also find the online rant about women 'selfishly prioritising their own orgasms' instead of providing distressed male people with badly needed sexual access to their body.

This is what all this 'be generous and let me do what I want to your identity words and definitions' stuff is rooted in, and this is what proponents of it are supporting, whether consciously or not.

It's not your identity that's the problem

It's reusing words to have a different meaning to fit your identity that's a problem

Words are the way in which we interface with others

So you identify as a lesbian even though you are attracted to people of either sex / that a fine , it's your identity? So keep it up yourself

but if you are attracted to either sex , others will not call you lesbian and may refuse to accept your internal identity as having any meaning outside of your own head

It's not my job to have to explain your strange bullshit world to you, OP.

I'm with Strictly - they have 'same-sex couples'. And that's the BBC.

What if I don’t stop finding the trans woman attractive after learning that she’s trans? What if I never find out she was trans - is it the case that I have ceased being a lesbian, but will never know this?

Ask the transwoman who lied to you if you're a lesbian. That'll sort it all out for you.

If you can't distinguish a woman from a man (however they're dressed) at a cursory glance, then you need to visit an optician.

Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity, I can’t see how this absolutist approach is logically sustainable.

When it comes to being "absolutist", thanks to Allison Bailey's tribunal case, the belief that 'The tone of [Stonewall]'s campaigning on this subject has been binary, absolutist and evangelical. It may be summarised as “You are with us, or you are a bigot.” ' is now protected.

As is the belief (para 279 (e)) that "Gender theory as proselytised by [Stonewall] is severely detrimental to lesbians. In reclassifying “sex” with “gender”, [Stonewall] has reclassified homosexuality from “same sex attraction” to “same gender attraction”. The result of this is that heterosexual men who identify as trans women and are sexually attracted to women are to be treated as lesbians. There is therefore an encouragement by followers of gender theory (including [Stonewall) on lesbians to have sex with male-bodied people. To reject this encouragement is to be labelled as bigoted. This is inherently homophobic because it denies the reality and legitimacy of same sex attraction and invites opprobrium and threatening behaviour upon people who recognise that reality and legitimacy."

So it seems that you are in danger of proposing an "absolutist" and "inherently homophobic" position here, @aseriesofstillimages

Anyone who thinks that a lesbian ,who says they are same sex attracted ,is demonstrating an "absolutist approach" to identity can just fuck off!

Well for one thing it's not a "concept" but a material reality. Secondly its really not that complicated, some people are gay, get over it. 🤷‍♀️

This.

They are not even trying to hide the homophobia anymore

Also wondering about the OP's skin in the game?

Are you a lesbian yourself or simply musing about other people's sexuality?

Come on OP, out with it, who do you want to have sec with who’s not into you?

I've recently seen more twitter posts referring to androphiliic or gynephillic transwomen.

These terms suggest that the TWs are attracted to either women or femininity/males or masculinity in their partner.

For most people their sexual orientation is based on sex, not gender presentation so these terms and ideas relate to v v few people. But they can use those terms if they find them helpful I guess.

The rest of us will stick to sex.

The idea that you could be so taken in by someone's presentation so as to not know their biological sex is a fantasy in most if not nearly all cases.

But how can anyone truly ever define their own sexuality by this logic?

I’d say I was heterosexual but I’ve not asked any of the blokes I’ve fancied how they identify so I could be wrong couldn’t I? Couldn’t we all?

OP are you the transwoman in this scenario? If so then you are a creepy heterosexual male. And if you believe you can deceive a potential sexual partner as to you sex right up to and including through sex then you are not only deluded but also planning rape/sexual assault by deception. But join Stonewall - I believe they are campaigning to decriminalise rape by deception.

Also, and I'm sorry if this is crude, but any lesbian with sexual experience would realise a trans partner was trans.

Male people will never have female pheromones.

It's a shame you started this thread on Brighton Pride weekend.

I am proud to be exclusively same-sex attracted. It's not absolutist or exclusionary, it's a valid sexual orientation and something I wish people would stop challenging.

Perhaps you could pop your question onto Pistonheads and ask the men there whether them being attracted to a TW without recognising them as such (more likely - men aren't as good at recognising sex as women) means they're gay.

No? Why not?

What if I never find out she was trans - is it the case that I have ceased being a lesbian, but will never know this?

You'd have to be absolutely hammered to not identify someone as a TW.

And no one should be taking advantage of someone in that state.

If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women,

Woman, simply Woman is sufficient. The way you word it it's almost as if transwomen existed before women.

Lesbian - same sex attracted.
Transwoman - changed gender.

There, fixed it for you.

If you are ok with having sex with people of either sex then the word for that is bisexual. From Bi - meaning two.

Hope that helps your confusion. There's alot of it about these days.