Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

Then they are not heterosexual, they are gay or bisexual.

Come on, heterosexual as an etymology that even the average TRA can understand. Hetero means same, heterosexual means same-sex attracted.

Your statement is no different to saying that you know many vegans who live an omnivorous diet with lots of meat in it.

Whereas I would question the sexual orientation of men who find female body builders attractive.
wtf?!?!?

If you are sexually attracted to people who have a vagina and you want to be intimate with someone because you find vaginas sexually arousing then you are probably not going to be sexually aroused by a penis, regardless how the person it's attached to identifies.

And that's ok!

It's a bit like those people who say they are vegetarian but eat chicken and fish. Yeah that isn't a vegetarian. So no, you can't unilaterally change words to mean your interpretation of them.

If you're attracted to a transwoman you're lesbian. If you find that she has a penis and you're still attracted to her and want to have sex with her, I would say you're not a lesbian.

I am not redefining any word.

It is common knowledge that there are heterosexual men attracted to trans women. These men are not attracted to men and would never consider a relationship with a man.

Whereas I would question the sexual orientation of men who find female body builders attractive.

That seems a pretty valid claim, yes.

Let’s be honest here, trans “women” are generally far closer to Eddie Izzard or Katie / Colin Mongomerie in appearance than they are to Kylie Minogue.

What I find troubling is that a lot of people here think they are entitled to tell individual lesbians like my friend that they are not lesbians.

You find it troubling that people here know definitions and use them?

If your female friend is in a relationship with a male then she is either heterosexual or bisexual. Not a lesbian. As a lesbian is someone female who is only attracted to other females. Thats what words are, they mean things. It's why we have dictionaries, so that everyone can understand the meanings of different words.

If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women,

Woman, simply Woman is sufficient. The way you word it it's almost as if transwomen existed before women.
I think it a problem with the space between trans and woman, these individuals (born male who believe they are female) are not “a kind of female” they have a different origin and so transwo man, or transwoman seems clearer to me. Neither can be a lesbian in my opinion as that is exclusively for women.

Are you suggesting there is no single trans woman in existence who a woman could chat to/kiss in a bar while still believing them to be a cis woman?

Are you suggesting that most transwomen pass? The answer is very obviously no, despite what trans people tell each other on Reddit. It is 99.9% of the time extremely clear when someone is trans.

Hence the very high majority of T4T couples.

Since I am heterosexual, I will speak about heterosexuals. I am
exclusively attracted to males. I’m old enough that the Kinsey scale used to be something we talked about and I am extremely far to one end on that scale. My attraction to males and lack of attraction to females is very firm.

if I met someone who I perceived to be male, developed an attraction, and later found out they were female, my identity would not change. My perception was wrong and my attraction would likely update. Attraction updates all the time when you find out new information about a person. It can be as simple as finding out he has the wrong political views or that he isn’t nice to his parents. it would certainly update if you found out he wasn’t actually male.

Oops sorry, cross post. The problem as I see it with your last post is that lesbian does have a single, universally agreed definition - an exclusively same-sex attracted woman - and no amount of obfuscation will change that definition. Your friend is welcome to enter into a relationship with a male but in doing so she changes the definition applied to her sexuality from lesbian to bisexual.

It’s a really weird idea that anyone should want to try so hard to pressure other people who fundamentally don’t fancy them that they ought to.

I'm a straight woman and no lesbian I’ve ever known has tried to persuade me otherwise. And I’ve never tried to persuade a gay man that they should give me a chance.

If you call yourself a vegan but eat meat, you can't be surprised that other people think you're being a bit odd in your choice of words. They'll probably be too polite to mention it though.

But imagine this is all part of a movement to force all vegans to redefine veganism as eating animal products, and to change the meaning of veganism to 'proud to eat animal products'? To shame and bully vegans to eat animal products whether willing or not? To leave no definitions at all for those who were formerly known as vegans because the invaders quite like the word and the concept and the feels of it?

If you're in a relationship with a male you're not a lesbian. I'm sorry, you're not. If you insist on calling yourself a lesbian you crack on, but I'm not indulging this any further because it's an active part of propping up the homophobia and lesbophobia now utterly rampant in this society. Brought about by the selfishness and entitlement of TQ+ politics. Find your own words. Stop trashing other people in the name of I Deserve It and No one Says No To Anything I Want.

I’m not saying a person can unilaterally use words about themselves based on a meaning that is utterly divorced from the way in which anyone else in society uses them. Or they can, but they can’t expect others to find that usage meaningful.

So like a man who uses the word 'woman' to describe himself - is that the kind of thing you're getting at?

And I believe that a previous poster has already asked, op, but if you missed it I'd like to (seriously and politely, of course) repeat the question - how would you, in the context of your question, define yourself? You seem quite interested in how lesbians define themselves; I don't think it's unreasonable to ask what your interest in this matter?

She will have ceased to be a lesbian, but don't worry, she can still identify as one.

A woman who is sexually attracted to a man is not a lesbian, that is correct. What’s the question?

@aseriesofstillimages

There is a logic to what you say, but my question would be, why is it for you (or anyone) to decide the rules which determine how this person can define themselves?

It’s both for the reason that you go on to mention, that words already have accepted meanings, and so you are just being deliberately confusing, but also because you are removing the ability of a group to define themselves, and this is (in this case) a deliberate act that’s part of a concerted effort to shame lesbians into sucking men’s cocks.

If you take the word lesbian away from same-sex attracted women, then how do they now describe themselves?

If you allow men into lesbian dating apps because you say that they are lesbians too, then you take away a lesbian service.

Let’s not pretend that this is a neutral act. You and others are doing this for one reason, and one reason only, which is that you want to facilitate the coercion of homosexual women into having heterosexual sex.

You will be aware of the concept of the cotton ceiling. Your post here is just one more part of your sort’s inability to respect a woman’s right to say no.

@aseriesofstillimages "but my question would be, why is it for you (or anyone) to decide the rules which determine how this person can define themselves?"

People can define themselves however they want. I could define myself as a flying purple spotted green elbowed hippo and be adamen t that that is what I am. But that doesn't mean that I am that, or that anyone else would see me as that.

Everyone else would rightly see me as a human being.