Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

If your friend wants to call herself a lesbian she is perfectly at liberty to do so. But the reality is she is bisexual.

^^ pretty much nails it.

Everyone is at liberty to call themselves any labels and identities they want. In reality, others will follow their own objective perceptions and are under no obligation to participate.

The side effect of telling lies like men can be women if they say they are, or lesbians are attracted to dick, is the destruction of our collective sense that we use to orient ourselves in the world. If we lose our shared understanding of language and allow a minority to openly twist reality to suit their own political purpose, then we can no longer trust the world and others in it.
Orwell predicted this:

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."

Yes, bag mental fart there. Hetero meaning other, and heterosexual meaning opposite sex attracted.

Homo being the antonym.

Hetero means same, heterosexual means same-sex attracted.

I think you’ve got your words mixed up @StillHappy !

‘Hetero’ doesn’t mean ‘same’, and ‘heterosexual’ doesn’t mean ‘same-sex attracted’.

Whereas I would question the sexual orientation of men who find female body builders attractive.

Hmmm , I’m not a body builder but I lift - at least 1.5 times my own body weight. I’m strong as fuck. I have visibly hard muscles. And heterosexual men love it.

people get so fixated on gender and ‘not asking about genitals’, that they forget that sexual orientation is about sex, which kind of boils down to genitals, at least some of the time

if I coped off with someone and found they had a vagina I’d be pretty fucking surprised, followed by immediately turned off

given the history of corrective rape of lesbians, ignoring the fact that

1. most trans women have penises
2. lesbians want nothing to do with penises

is particularly egregious

Have a lovely time with your thought experiments. Play with whatever labels and exciting word definitions you choose, have fun. Just can you please not shit on others while you do so. That's all.

Top post @Artichokeleaves

I’m “exclusively” opposite sex attracted and you pretty much sun up the position for me, too. Thanks for saying it all so clearly.

And I’m just really sorry for all the crap that lesbians are having to deal with. Looks like lesbophobia never really went away even in our new “progressive” world.

Solidarity from a straight sister

Seriously?

female body builders aren’t men. And their bodies come in a whole lot of different shapes and sizes depending on the class they compete in or what aesthetics they want.

and many female body builders look very different when not near competition time.

but generally like muscular women not like men.

Eddie fucking Izzard saying he’s a lesbian

does that not give you pause OP?

So you are fine with men who are attracted to biological men still calling themselves heterosexual but if they dare to fancy a female athlete then they can't possibly be heterosexual

What a pile of jumbled thinking

she referred to having known and worked alongside many women who were lesbians, or chose to become lesbians following their involvement in the movement. I queried if some people might find the suggestion that it is a choice offensive, but she was adamant it reflected the experience of the women she had known. After the piece was published I was discussing it with colleague who is a lesbian, and she said she found the reference to choice quite offensive, as she never felt she had a choice about her sexuality.

I don't think that this is hard to get your head around, given the historical context.

While "chose" might not be the most helpful verb, I would take that to mean that the women being referred to were either:

A) Lesbian, but had previously been in heterosexual relationships because of societal expectations, not to mention the law.

B) Bisexual, but decided to pursue only same sex relationships in the future.

Incidentally, gay people who have heterosexual relationships because they are unsure or afraid to come out are not any less gay.

Are we saying that a man can be attracted to another male who also has a penis but they are heterosexual if the male with a penis identifies as a woman but a man who is attracted to a female body builder is probably gay?

aseriesofstillimages
Are you suggesting there is no single trans woman in existence who a woman could chat to/kiss in a bar while still believing them to be a cis woman?

You seem very interested in people not calling your friend bi because they fancy a man yet you also want to call women cis when no prefix is required.

Why is that?

If you want people to respect your and your friends choices why are you not respecting other people's choices?

It’s the complete ignoring of context

like the OP is completely unaware of just how much some men hate women who are sexually unavailable

like they’ve never encountered all those tremendously funny men who when they meet a lesbian say ‘me too!’, or ‘can I watch?’’ or some other startling witticism

like the OP is unaware of corrective rape and all those creepy men who just want to prove that she hasn’t met the right man yet when they come across a lesbian

and now those creepy fuckers have hoodwinked women like the OP into helping them! Mazel tov @aseriesofstillimages , you’re a pawn of the patriarchy!

I also find the Kinsey scale quite helpful. I'm a 3. It feels a bit wrong to say I'm bisexual because I have never had any kind of established sexual relationship with a woman (a concept i do find really useful and recognise is compulsory heterosexuality in UK culture). However, I am sexually attracted to some women and enjoy sex with them. I'm sexually attracted to almost all men. I think I could say I'm bisexual.

I think that bisexuality is more common than we think, and I think it can be more difficult for bisexual people to understand that exclusive same sex attraction really exists. I also think sexuality for a lot of people is genuinely much more fluid and subject to multiple influences than we have yet learned how to deal with.

Having said all that; i do think that a lesbian describes a woman who is only attracted to women. Maybe there should be the word lesbian* or femmebian to describe women who are attracted to feminine presentation. Or stop bisexual erasure maybe?

Mainly, I think, a hatred of women?

@BootsAndRoots , given your deeply unpleasant post about female bodybuilders, is it a fair guess to say that you yourself tend to err on the side of, well, less definition, athleticism and more towards sphéricity?

I am not a lesbian, but @Artichokeleaves’ post sums up exactly why I support the rights of lesbians to define themselves as biological females solely attracted to other biological females, and to have the right to refuse sex with trans women - especially as I believe over 90% of trans women retain their penis, and want to define penis in vagina sex as lesbian sex, and who share tips on how to get through the ‘cotton celing’ - aka get into lesbians’ knickers.

Whereas I would question the sexual orientation of men who find female body builders attractive

er, are you trying to say female body builders are basically men?

bizarre sexism

These gender police types really do come out with some utter fuckwittery don't they?

So men can be lesbians but if they fancy females with muscles they must be gay?

Wow, there's a lot to unpack there BootsandRoots

Are you suggesting there is no single trans woman in existence who a woman could chat to/kiss in a bar while still believing them to be a cis woman?

Yes. Why is that so difficult to believe. The vast majority of sober women can tell very easily.

Google the experiment where men and women have a dozen lights added to them, then are asked to move in the dark so all you can see are the lights. Most women can STILL identify the men.

Whereas I would question the sexual orientation of men who find female body builders attractive.

Surely this is a joke?

Shit, I just read the last line. A female athlete is female. Claiming that they are not but that a man who claims he is really is is abhorrent. Down there with your “but what about black women then.”

My own position is that language around sexuality is necessarily evolving and to some extent subjective,

It isn't evolving - that implies an organic, accepted morph into different words or definitions. The words woman and lesbian have been forcibly co-opted by others to further their world view.

If your friend wants to call herself a lesbian she is perfectly at liberty to do so. But the reality is she is bisexual. The actual real living accepted definition of the word.

There are no fluffy edges which need to be taken into account. We must keep the words we use in common usage that the man on the Clapham
Omnibus would understand. And that means a lesbian dating site should be assumed to be for females looking for other females. Not for those who wish to blur the boundaries.