Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

so to sumarise your position @aseriesofstillimages .

At least 2 lesbians have joined this thread to tell you of occasions when they've felt pressured to have a relationship with a transwoman (I would say man). A number of other women who are lesbians have told you how unhappy they are with you and others trying to redefine their sexual orientation. You are uninterested and your position is unaffected by these posts.

you read an article containing this

Another lesbian woman, 26-year-old Chloe, said she felt so pressured she ended up having penetrative sex with a trans woman at university after repeatedly explaining she was not interested*

and your response is the article doesn't say men pressuring lesbians for sex is prevalent and you don't believe one of the women quoted.

You agree with Nancy Kelly's statement that if a lesbian writes off dating men, it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped her attractions.

You acknowledge that sex is real, that men and women have different bodies. You acknowledge that there are large numbers of creepy men who are fixated on having sex with lesbians. you are unable to explain what converts a man into a transwoman, apparently there's a fuzzy line. so we don't know when it stops being OK to notice that a person is a creepy man and we start having to think he's an actual lesbian

you are still quite at ease accusing people who look at a man and see a man of 'religious fervour', even though you are unable to explain your position.

have I misrepresented you anywhere here?

Ah now we're at the bottom line.

You don't think it's acceptable for females to be homosexual and deny sex to males.

Therefore you have no respect for the term lesbian and feel entitled to treat homosexual women and their identities in this disparaging way for your own purposes.

Took twenty pages but we got there. At least you're honest about your homophobia, and your belief that it's ok to treat people badly when they aren't like you and yours.

aseriesofstillimages

How do you feel about stonewall holding workshops about how transwomen men can have sex with lesbians? which is were the "sexual racists" saying came from.

18yr old

🤭 I was wondering what kind of 1 year old knows the word “gay” but I was otherwise almost buying it. It’s more age appropriate than it is for an 18 year old anyway!

18yr old

I once had a bonkers arguememt with an 1 yo girl (who liked to wear flower print flowing dresses and makeup) who was going to call the police on me because I said she was not a gay man.

Do you think she was a gay man? and should be alowed to wax lyrical about how much homophobic oppression she faced?

Still no proper engagement @aseriesofstillimages ?

I read the BBC article you posted - may I ask if you've had the courtesy to do the same with mine?

As 20 pages demonstrate: there is no having any kind of rational meeting of minds with someone who identifies as this being ok.

Indeed.

Yes.

Although female people being sexually aggressive isn't so alarming or dangerous to males and male people have a whole lot more social capital in being able to say wtf, no. With TM being female, the socialisation seems to play a significant part, and there's also not the same situation of groups having been taken over and forced to be compliant or aggressively shut down. And there isn't the same history of male people feeling entitled to female bodies and becoming angry with female people feeling they have some say in this, or seeing homosexual females as some sort of ultimate conquest.

What you never see is anyone trying to convince straight people they should abandon their sexual orientation, or redefine themselves, or learn to cope with unwanted sex. You see incels talk in depth about wishing females could be forced/allocated to males for sex without the right to say no, but you never see a question about wanting to redefine heterosexual to be inclusive of all sexualities and choices. Or homosexual people wishing to use the label heterosexual and getting cross with any argument that the word has a specific meaning.

It's as teenagers in school currently say: the last thing you ever admit to is just being plain boring straight, it's social death.

You are aware that believing that males can't even lesbians and thet trans people are delusional perverted criminals are to completely separate things?

I never see this discussion the other way around.

Is anyone trying to convince gay men they should accept trans men as partners?

Or @aseriesofstillimages, I'm sure you won't answer this, but to put my question a different way, if women who were born female and were attracted to other women who were born female chose to use "bio lesbian" to signify this for the purpose of dating, events etc (and thereby to exclude trans women from their own dating pool, whilst happily accepting that trans women were or considered themselves to be lesbians too), would you object to this?

I think your first mistake was in your first sentence OP where you state that to be gay or lsebian is to be exclusively same sex attracted is a specific belief to this forum where I think you'll find that the overwhelming majority of society understand clearly what same sex attraction means.

There is a small portion of society, religious fanatics, homophobes and the like who refuse to believe that homosexuality is a fact, but it doesn't stop it from being an actual fact.

When you're being kind and concerned please think about who you're being kind to and how that affects the reality of those who don't concern you.

The core of this is the belief:

to not validate a TW as female is unacceptably evil, which requires the overlooking of reality, fact, everyone else's interests and humanity and civil rights, common sense etc etc.

The 'silly hate' is that homosexual women insist on saying 'no, because you're in fact male and my orientation is not to males'.

Instead of wholly revolving themselves, their lives, their sexuality and their feelings around meeting the need of this male person to protect the male person's sense of self. In a quite disturbingly codependent, unhealthy way that sees them and their body merely as a resource for the betterment of people born male, while denying that this obviously very, very sex based binary thinking exists.

As 20 pages demonstrate: there is no having any kind of rational meeting of minds with someone who identifies as this being ok.

Oh yes to number 4. There is no evidence that transitioning changes this! In fact I think there is ample evidence that it does not! Especially the story about the trans woman who coerced that poor lesbian into having unwanted sex with them by threatening to out them as transphobic!

what are these silly, hateful things about trans issues that are being said on here?

'no' basically.

Pigeon chess.

Yes, you’re indulging in silly ‘you haven’t scared me off’ posts while failing to engage with any of the arguments

it makes you look like rather a lightweight if I may say so

silly, hateful things about trans issues

see, I’m not clear on what you mean by this. I’m very unclear on your views generally, other than the fact you regard me as some sort of religious maniac. Can you let me know which of the statements below you consider to be silly and/or hateful @aseriesofstillimages ?

1. women are people with the kind of body that can gestate a baby (by all that’s holy, please let’s not do the hysterectomies, infertility dance)

2. women suffer discrimination and disadvantages because they have those kinds of bodies

3. men commit 80% of violent crime and 98% of sexual violence

4. although you haven’t actually nailed down what you would consider as ‘transition’, there’s no evidence that things like taking cross sex hormones or having cosmetic surgery affects statement 3

5. men are generally considered to be more entitled to resources and opportunities than women (see the college rapists who’ve ‘ruined their future’ by getting caught for example)

6. men generally expect women to validate and facilitate them

7. statements 3, 5 and 6 make women only spaces and resources very important

8. men using a lesbian dating app are intruding on a women only resource in the style of entitled MCPs since the dawn of time

I'll probably regret bothering to ask and equally probably won't get an answer but what are these silly, hateful things about trans issues that are being said on here?

That TW are male and therefore cannot be described as lesbians nor should they expect to be and particularly not to force lesbians to succumb to this and insert themselves into lesbian spaces and dating apps/groups?

That lesbian is term that describes females exclusively sexually attracted to members of their own sex and that anyone who doesn't fall under that specific description isn't a lesbian?

...really isn't killing me..