Page 17 | Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

aseriesofstillimages · 2022-08-07T11:36:09+00:00

I have seen various people on this forum say that to be gay or a lesbian is to be ‘exclusively same sex attracted’, and that therefore, for example, a woman who is attracted to or in a relationship with a trans woman cannot correctly describe herself as a lesbian. Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity, I can’t see how this absolutist approach is logically sustainable. If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women, but then am attracted to and get off with a woman in a bar who I subsequently find out is trans, do I immediately stop being a lesbian? What if I don’t stop finding the trans woman attractive after learning that she’s trans? What if I never find out she was trans - is it the case that I have ceased being a lesbian, but will never know this?

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 19/08/2022 11:41

Her statement equally can be applied as, a straight man might wish to consider what societal prejudices may have contributed to him not being attracted to a trans woman.

No it can't, or at least, only in the sense of being equally barking. What gives you the idea that this is from "societal prejudice" as oppososed to a sexuality? Being straight - if you mean heterosexual and not just boring - is a sexuality. Like being gay or lesbian or bisexual are sexualities.

You still seem to maintain a bonkers idea that trans women are sexually and physically indistinguishable from women, and that women (or men) who are attracted to women would naturally find transwomen attractive too, if not for social prejudice. It's just not the case.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/08/2022 11:18

I don’t know who these trans incels are but they must be really sad.

It's easier to bully and guilt trip women than men, particularly when they are nominally members of the same "community".

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/08/2022 11:16

a straight man might wish to consider what societal prejudices may have contributed to him not being attracted to a trans woman

LOL. Tell that to most straight men, go on.

CompleteGinasaur · 19/08/2022 11:12

Yes, FrippEnos (love the name, btw!). I'd love to get hold of a transcript of that job interview. "So Miss Page, Stonewall would like you to tell us more about how to overcome lesbian resistance to penis in vagina sex? Not Nancy, of course, she's happily married. Just all those other lesbians who seem to be operating under the delusion that they're actually allowed to set their own sexual boundaries.."

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/08/2022 11:11

I get that 'queer' people don't like boundaries but why are they so keen to break down other people's boundaries

I found this a good introduction to queer theory as a political agenda:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unpacking-Queer-Politics-Feminist-Perspective/dp/0745628389

FrippEnos · 19/08/2022 11:07

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And this is the thing, Everybody must not only except them but do as they are told to validate them, whilst at the same time they don't have to accept that others do not feel the same way and are therefore bigots and phobes.

If they truly want acceptance then they need to accept that other people's feelings and requirements are as valid as theirs.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/08/2022 11:07

Or the fact Stonewall welcomed them with open arms and defended them and their workshop? Seriously?

And threw a hissy fit when Allison Bailey called it out.

FrippEnos · 19/08/2022 11:01

aseriesofstillimages · 19/08/2022 00:03

That didn’t happen did it? The person who ran the workshop in question joined Stonewall at a later time.

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But it did happen. you can look on google and find may reports of it.
And even if it did happen at a later time (assuming that we are on about the workshops) how can you even think that it is right for an LGBT charity to run groups that teaches men how to coerce lesbians into PIV sex.

CompleteGinasaur · 19/08/2022 10:41

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Likewise, Franca123.

"Are there 'large numbers of creepy men who are fixated on having sex with lesbians'? I don't think I agreed to that." I don't know how you managed to miss this, op; all you have to do for proof of this is to register on any (nominally) women-only dating site; conservatively half of the 'women' presented for your delectation fit that description perfectly. In fact, 'creepy' is usually a serious understatement..

Franca123 · 19/08/2022 10:27

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VestofAbsurdity · 19/08/2022 10:18

a straight man might wish to consider what societal prejudices may have contributed to him not being attracted to a trans woman

Why? A straight man's sexual orientation is to the opposite sex a transwoman is the same sex as him therefore why would he be attracted to a TW? It's got fuck all to do with societal prejudices.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 19/08/2022 08:47

aseriesofstillimages · 19/08/2022 00:00

At least 2 lesbians have joined this thread to tell you of occasions when they've felt pressured to have a relationship with a transwoman (I would say man). A number of other women who are lesbians have told you how unhappy they are with you and others trying to redefine their sexual orientation. You are uninterested and your position is unaffected by these posts.

I am not uninterested in the accounts of individuals who have been pressured into relationships. I think it should go without saying that is wrong. I don’t think that my views on whether individuals should be (within reason) allowed to define their own sexuality have any real impact on whether that happens or not. I also have heard from a much greater number of lesbians that they have not been aware of this happening - which is part of my reason for thinking it doesn’t happen much. I have occasionally (in the long distance past) been pressured into doing things I didn’t really want to do with other women. I don’t judge whole groups of people on the behaviour of a few.

You agree with Nancy Kelly's statement that if a lesbian writes off dating men, it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped her attractions.

that makes it sound more specific and targeted than it was. Her statement equally can be applied as, a straight man might wish to consider what societal prejudices may have contributed to him not being attracted to a trans woman. Or, a gay man who puts ‘white/Asian only’ on his Grindr profile might want to think what has shaped his attractions. Obviously, in the case of gay men and lesbians, it’s important to be sensitive to the history (individually or collectively) of people being told their sexuality was wrong or invalid.

You acknowledge that sex is real, that men and women have different bodies. You acknowledge that there are large numbers of creepy men who are fixated on having sex with lesbians. you are unable to explain what converts a man into a transwoman, apparently there's a fuzzy line. so we don't know when it stops being OK to notice that a person is a creepy man and we start having to think he's an actual lesbian

I mean, we all have different bodies. But yes, obviously there are a number of significant particular differences between bodies designed to produce large gametes and those designed to produce small gametes.

Are there ‘large numbers of creepy men who are fixated on having sex with lesbians’? I don’t think I agreed to that.

Also that’s rather missing the point. A person who pursues someone who they know or suspect isn’t interested in them is being creepy. Knowing whether someone is being creepy or not doesn’t depend on knowing whether they’re a woman or a man (trans or otherwise).

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so no, I hadn't misrepresented you at all

you are a homophobe

morescrummythanyummy · 19/08/2022 07:52

Still no answer to my question, OP?

ALadderAgainstAWall · 19/08/2022 02:51

Hell, no, not just allowed! Women do have the autonomy. We can reject or accept anyone we choose.

ALadderAgainstAWall · 19/08/2022 02:47

Women are allowed to reject anyone they want to reject, for any reason they choose.

DaughterofDawn · 19/08/2022 02:26

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Pocodaku · 19/08/2022 01:59

OP, transwomen are still biologically male. Even the ones who have ‘bottom’ surgery, get cross-sex hormones, their jaws shaved down and other ‘feminisation’ procedures still have male dna, pelvises, shoulders, Adam’s apples, etc etc.

Lesbians are, by definition, attracted to female bodies, not an idea or inner feeling of ‘woman’.
Sex is something we do with bodies - you can’t leave bodies and genitals out of the sex equation. And apologies for TMI, but ‘Neo vaginas’ as they are called, don’t look or feel or taste like female parts. ‘Lady diques’ are male genitals, attached to a male body.

We are not disembodied brains in jars. Being attracted to only brown-haired women is a preference. Being attracted to adult female humans only, is not a ‘preference’. It is an orientation. Trying to force a change in this orientation to please male people and social pressures is conversion therapy.

VestofAbsurdity · 19/08/2022 01:33

That didn’t happen did it? The person who ran the workshop in question joined Stonewall at a later time.

And you don't see anything wrong with that? Or the fact Stonewall welcomed them with open arms and defended them and their workshop? Seriously?

Indeed true colours well and truly on show now, what's the difference between that workshop and the ones run by Julien Blanc who was barred from entry in the UK?

noraclavicle · 19/08/2022 00:07

aseriesofstillimages · 19/08/2022 00:03

That didn’t happen did it? The person who ran the workshop in question joined Stonewall at a later time.

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Yep, as stated, your true colours are really on display now.

Original poster

aseriesofstillimages · 19/08/2022 00:03

FrippEnos · 18/08/2022 21:16

aseriesofstillimages

How do you feel about stonewall holding workshops about how transwomen men can have sex with lesbians? which is were the "sexual racists" saying came from.

That didn’t happen did it? The person who ran the workshop in question joined Stonewall at a later time.

OP posts:

noraclavicle · 19/08/2022 00:01

there was nothing in that article to suggest it is a prevalent problem

So. Here we are, several pages in, and your true colours are on full display. So we ask the perennial question; how many women are you prepared to sacrifice on the altar of this ideology? It seems quite a few for you. But you haven’t grasped it yet, have you? One - ONE - is too many for the women on this board.

You don’t get to to redefine lesbians’ sexual orientation.

Original poster

aseriesofstillimages · 19/08/2022 00:00

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 18/08/2022 21:43

so to sumarise your position @aseriesofstillimages .

At least 2 lesbians have joined this thread to tell you of occasions when they've felt pressured to have a relationship with a transwoman (I would say man). A number of other women who are lesbians have told you how unhappy they are with you and others trying to redefine their sexual orientation. You are uninterested and your position is unaffected by these posts.

you read an article containing this

Another lesbian woman, 26-year-old Chloe, said she felt so pressured she ended up having penetrative sex with a trans woman at university after repeatedly explaining she was not interested*

and your response is the article doesn't say men pressuring lesbians for sex is prevalent and you don't believe one of the women quoted.

You agree with Nancy Kelly's statement that if a lesbian writes off dating men, it's worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped her attractions.

You acknowledge that sex is real, that men and women have different bodies. You acknowledge that there are large numbers of creepy men who are fixated on having sex with lesbians. you are unable to explain what converts a man into a transwoman, apparently there's a fuzzy line. so we don't know when it stops being OK to notice that a person is a creepy man and we start having to think he's an actual lesbian

you are still quite at ease accusing people who look at a man and see a man of 'religious fervour', even though you are unable to explain your position.

have I misrepresented you anywhere here?