Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

If someone carried out a survey of the general public, I think it’s likely a majority would say that a man who is attracted only to men, including trans men who have had hormonal/surgical intervention, is gay, and a woman who is attracted only to women, including trans women who have had hormonal/surgical intervention, is a lesbian.

Why are we asking the general public what homosexual females are allowed to call themselves?

Instead of, you know, actual homosexual females? A number of whom are repeatedly telling you on this thread that no, this is not ok.

Do you believe in majority opinion from those with no skin in the game when deciding policy for a minority group? Is all the stuff about respecting a minority in naming and defining themselves now old hat?

that was to @aseriesofstillimages

Just as it’s not for me to unilaterally define ‘lesbian’, it’s not for you either.

Do you mean redefine lesbian?
Lesbian already has a clearly defined meaning until the trans lobby redefined or lost the definition of woman

Transwomen are men

Women don’t have penises

Men who don’t respect women and their boundaries are unpleasant people

it is all very simple

If you disagree with any of the above then you don’t respect women

I’m not sure whether in some cases excluding men and/or trans women from an event/venue might be unlawful discrimination under the Equality Act.

As stated, yes you can exclude all men. What you can't do is include some male people who are transwomen and exclude all other men, as the other men can now claim discrimination.

'Just as it’s not for me to unilaterally define ‘lesbian’, it’s not for you either. If someone carried out a survey of the general public, I think it’s likely a majority would say that a man who is attracted only to men, including trans men who have had hormonal/surgical intervention, is gay, and a woman who is attracted only to women, including trans women who have had hormonal/surgical intervention, is a lesbian. And likewise straight men who are attracted to trans women and straight women who are attracted to trans men.'

OP, regarding this 'majority' claim, do you consider the inhabitants of other continents human, too?
In any case, I challenge you to find ANY society in the world, Western or not, where the majority of people hold that women with penises are a thing.

Yes, exactly. Just making it clear that whatever the disputed grey area of "legal sex", there is no difference in the Equality Act between a male with and a male without the protected category of gender reassignment apart from that protected characteristic, unless (arguably) the "transsexual" bio male has a GRC.

Even with a GRC it's perfectly legal under certain circumstances for transwomen to be excluded from women-only single-sex services, and transmen to be excluded from men-only single sex services.

Unless they have a GRC "men" and "trans women" are the same category under the EA.

The same sex category, I should say. The only difference between the two is the protected category of gender reassignment.

Yes.

(Otoh there's no legal basis in the U.K. for anything being single 'gender' rather than single sex, unsurprising as the latter has a clear definition and the former doesn't and isn't a protected characteristic.)

excluding men and/or trans women from an event/venue might be unlawful discrimination under the Equality Act.

Unless they have a GRC "men" and "trans women" are the same category under the EA.

The law on clubs and societies:

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/what-equality-law-means-your-membership-association

Do you think you can have an organisation just for BAME or disabled women, or is that illegal?

You should look up "positive action" in the Equality Act. It's acceptable to have things just for women, or just for lesbians, as long as it's a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

It’s not a question of reasonableness - if you’re not attracted to someone then you’re not attracted to them.

But is it reasonable to expect the specific brush off "no thanks I'm a lesbian" to be understood and accepted by all males including those who identify as women? Please stop avoiding the substantive point.

But again @aseriesofstillimages do you think it's perfectly reasonable and polite for a lesbian to say to all males including MTF trans people, sorry, I'm not interested in you, because I'm a lesbian"?

'If someone carried out a survey of the general public, I think it’s likely a majority would say that a man who is attracted only to men, including trans men who have had hormonal/surgical intervention, is gay, and a woman who is attracted only to women, including trans women who have had hormonal/surgical intervention, is a lesbian. And likewise straight men who are attracted to trans women and straight women who are attracted to trans men.'

No, it isn't likely, but it's amusing to see you make this claim hardly any of them have surgery or pass as the opposite sex anyway, so you're talking about a tiny minority who "pass" and have also had their genitals operated on.

Why would it be illegal?

Are you intimating that women only having relationships with other women should somehow not be legal? In what situation would it not be legal?

@aseriesofstillimages It's not up to anyone to define anything for anyone else, not even you, but you came on here to say our definition was too narrow.

OK. So:
Recognising that words are used to describe not prescribe sexuality, I can see how this absolutist approach is logically required.

I wasn’t aware I had the authority to grant or deny such things. As long as it’s legal they can.

We're asking who you will support, when you see a conflict between a group of women who want a female only space, and a male saying he's a woman seeking entrance.

Do you support the women, because the transwoman is being a dick, intruding on their female-only space, or do you support the transwoman because the women are being transphobic/exclusionary.

Simple real-life case: Tickle vs Giggle in Australia (though I think this one's been dropped)

You're saying you're supporting the women, right?

'If someone carried out a survey of the general public, I think it’s likely a majority would say that a man who is attracted only to men, including trans men who have had hormonal/surgical intervention, is gay, and a woman who is attracted only to women, including trans women who have had hormonal/surgical intervention, is a lesbian. And likewise straight men who are attracted to trans women and straight women who are attracted to trans men.'

Er, no, they really wouldn't.

There’s another thread about conspiracy theorists going at the moment and it’s really interesting to see the same delusional faux logic used there being used by you.

@aseriesofstillimages i think that you’d find that it is likely that you’d find that 99.9% of the population would laugh if you said that someone with a dick (or who’s had a dick removed) is a lesbian.

your homophobia is blinding.