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Original poster

Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

938 replies

aseriesofstillimages · 07/08/2022 12:36

I have seen various people on this forum say that to be gay or a lesbian is to be ‘exclusively same sex attracted’, and that therefore, for example, a woman who is attracted to or in a relationship with a trans woman cannot correctly describe herself as a lesbian.

Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity, I can’t see how this absolutist approach is logically sustainable. If I am a non-trans woman who has only ever - to my knowledge - been attracted to other non-trans women, but then am attracted to and get off with a woman in a bar who I subsequently find out is trans, do I immediately stop being a lesbian? What if I don’t stop finding the trans woman attractive after learning that she’s trans? What if I never find out she was trans - is it the case that I have ceased being a lesbian, but will never know this?

OP posts:
AlisonDonut · 24/08/2022 09:18

aseriesofstillimages · 24/08/2022 01:09

I do keep saying that ‘no’ should always be sufficient - you shouldn’t have to give a reason.

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Oh wow so that's the way to stop rapists. Job done. Just say 'No'.

You are so clever. Thank you for coming into our lives and helping us, we should just say 'No'. And the bad man goes away.

PeriodBro · 24/08/2022 09:17

aseriesofstillimages · 24/08/2022 01:11

How about ‘no thanks’. Or, ‘no thanks, i’m not attracted to you’. Or even ‘no thanks, i’m not attracted to trans women’.

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'I'm not attracted to transwomen' - are you serious?!

Have you met many trans activists?

DarkDayforMN · 24/08/2022 09:13

That sounds very theoretical. Almost as if you’re not a woman and have never been approached by a persistent man …

It’s such an odd thing to keep repeating isn’t it? Of course “no” should be enough. We can all agree on that. But all women have experienced that it’s sometimes not enough, and sometimes saying it can be dangerous. And most of us have experienced that on the whole it’s better to try to deflect a situation where you might have to injure a fragile and potentially unstable male ego with a direct “No.”

And it’s not like the kind of man who wants to redefine lesbian sexuality to suit himself is going to take no for an answer better than the average man.

There’s a remarkable lack of understanding of women’s experiences on display here. I don’t think there’s even a desire to understand.

incidentally this thread title annoys me SO MUCH. The scare quotes!🤬

ErrolTheDragon · 24/08/2022 08:58

I do keep saying that ‘no’ should always be sufficient - you shouldn’t have to give a reason.

Well, you'd have hoped so, wouldn't you. But the evidence is that many males (regardless of gender) wont take no for an answer. I'd take a guess most women would go with ‘no thanks’. Or, ‘no thanks, i’m not attracted to you’ as the first level of rejection. But what would you recommend when that isn't enough? For how long do they have to be polite and kind?

LuftBalloons · 24/08/2022 07:36

I do keep saying that ‘no’ should always be sufficient - you shouldn’t have to give a reason.

That sounds very theoretical. Almost as if you’re not a woman and have never been approached by a persistent man …

334bu · 24/08/2022 06:42

How about ‘no thanks’. Or, ‘no thanks, i’m not attracted to you’.

How about transwomen,who know very well that they are male, stop trying to coerce same sex attracted women to have relationships with them. Problem solved no rejection and no posdibility of coercive rape.

Helleofabore · 24/08/2022 04:21

aseriesofstillimages · 24/08/2022 01:11

How about ‘no thanks’. Or, ‘no thanks, i’m not attracted to you’. Or even ‘no thanks, i’m not attracted to trans women’.

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And what… get abused for it?

Get reported for hate and micro aggressions? Get removed from the venue? Get rejected by groups that lesbian depends on and has been a member for years of? Lose friendships?

Do you actually read what people post and what has been written from people experiencing adverse reactions to rejecting these males? Do you honestly believe lesbians are making this up?

And yet, here you are suggesting actions that have a much higher likelihood than they should of causing harm to them.

You really seem to not be prepared to take in what you have been told in this thread at all.

WandaWomblesaurus · 24/08/2022 01:38

"How about ‘no thanks’. Or, ‘no thanks, i’m not attracted to you’. Or even ‘no thanks, i’m not attracted to trans women’."

You realise the last response gets death threats on Twitter OP? You realise that lesbians are being hounded for saying that last response?

WandaWomblesaurus · 24/08/2022 01:36

TheKeatingFive · 23/08/2022 21:13

If I decide that I'm actually Māori or blind and I 'identify' as such and I'm 'upset' if others don't affirm that for me, would I get any sympathy for that position?

I fucking hope not.

So why would 'identifying' as a woman be any different?

Because men can magically become women if they put on a skirt!
Don't be so unkind.
You'll hurt their feelings.

Original poster
aseriesofstillimages · 24/08/2022 01:11

PeriodBro · 23/08/2022 12:23

Okay, how about 'no thanks, I'm only attracted to females'

'no thanks, I don't find males attractive'

I await further instructions on how to be polite when turning down unwanted male attentions. God forbid women ever hurt male feelings, eh?

How about ‘no thanks’. Or, ‘no thanks, i’m not attracted to you’. Or even ‘no thanks, i’m not attracted to trans women’.

OP posts:
Original poster
aseriesofstillimages · 24/08/2022 01:09

FrippEnos · 23/08/2022 11:09

If you know the person you’re talking to is a trans woman then there are probably kinder ways to say it

Why is it the responsibility of the person that has been put in the situation to be nice to the person that has put them there?

And besides "no" should be sufficient.

I do keep saying that ‘no’ should always be sufficient - you shouldn’t have to give a reason.

OP posts:
Original poster
aseriesofstillimages · 24/08/2022 01:07

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/08/2022 21:55

unless the person is being a complete a**hole

Like a male hassling a lesbian for sex, for instance.

Nowhere have I suggested that ‘hassling’ anyone for sex is ok. There’s a difference between coming onto someone knowing they won’t be interested, and coming onto them when you don’t know whether or not they might be interested. Obviously the first is not ok, but the second is fine, as long as it’s done respectfully and with regard for boundaries.

OP posts:
Original poster
aseriesofstillimages · 24/08/2022 01:03

QueenHippolyta · 23/08/2022 22:13

Op: But unsurprisingly, if a trans woman considers herself to be a woman, it will be upsetting to be told by someone that they don’t regard her as a woman.

This is key.
If transwomen know that Lesbians will tell them plainly to their face that they are males, they will leave our community. No validation for you!

Op: If that person you were chatting up was a trans man, it sounds like their gender identity did stop you being attracted to them, as a lesbian?

I said she was a cute butch.
It was the self-hating herself as a woman that was the huge turn-off.

But you said they referred to themselves as ‘he’? Although I’m not sure how someone manages to refer to themselves in the third person in conversation.

OP posts:
QueenHippolyta · 23/08/2022 22:13

Op: But unsurprisingly, if a trans woman considers herself to be a woman, it will be upsetting to be told by someone that they don’t regard her as a woman.

This is key.
If transwomen know that Lesbians will tell them plainly to their face that they are males, they will leave our community. No validation for you!

Op: If that person you were chatting up was a trans man, it sounds like their gender identity did stop you being attracted to them, as a lesbian?

I said she was a cute butch.
It was the self-hating herself as a woman that was the huge turn-off.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/08/2022 21:55

unless the person is being a complete a**hole

Like a male hassling a lesbian for sex, for instance.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/08/2022 21:53

If so, I’m exercising my vote to say that a person who is only interested in women (whether trans or not) or is only interested in men (ditto) is not bisexual.

Don't be ridiculous.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/08/2022 21:52

Yeah… I am with the women who feel offended by any male approaching a lesbian to start with and putting them knowingly in the position to reject them.

Me too. Males shouldn't be hassling lesbians.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/08/2022 21:51

But unsurprisingly, if a trans woman considers herself to be a woman, it will be upsetting to be told by someone that they don’t regard her as a woman.

And? Life is full of disappointments.

Original poster
aseriesofstillimages · 23/08/2022 21:41

aseriesofstillimages · 23/08/2022 21:22

  1. Why are you assuming the trans woman knows in advance that the woman she’s coming onto is a lesbian?
  1. A lesbian (or anyone else) might easily perceive the trans man to be a man - either because they didn’t realise he was trans, or because they believe that trans men are men.
Show quote history

I’m sure I numbered those paragraphs 1 and 2….

OP posts:
Original poster
aseriesofstillimages · 23/08/2022 21:24

QueenHippolyta · 23/08/2022 10:53

Op: If you know the person you’re talking to is a trans woman then there are probably kinder ways to say it,

Lesbian: You are a man in a dress: go away
we need to stop all kindness and puncture this with the sharp bite of reality.

as for the transman, as a lesbian I discussed something close to this a few pages back in my own life: chatting up a cute butch lesbian possible date, who then called herself 'he' .... I turned her down and told her frankly that I love women and men physically disgust me, so calling yourself 'he' was an utter turn off.

Ladies: truth over kindness!

If that person you were chatting up was a trans man, it sounds like their gender identity did stop you being attracted to them, as a lesbian?

OP posts:
Original poster
aseriesofstillimages · 23/08/2022 21:22

Artichokeleaves · 23/08/2022 10:34

If you know the person you’re talking to is a trans woman then there are probably kinder ways to say it,

If you're a transwoman, then putting a female homosexual in the position of having to say no to you is probably not too kind either. Female people do not have a higher responsibility of kindness. It's not the job of lesbians to protect male egos or to provide any other services.

If a trans man came onto a lesbian and she said ‘no thanks, I’m a lesbian’

Why would a female homosexual say 'I'm a lesbian' as a reason to say a polite no to another female? Confused The gender identity is not relevant in homosexuality, it makes no odds at all. It's the sex class that matters. In the case of a TM propositioning it would be quite simply whether or not the attraction was reciprocated.

  1. Why are you assuming the trans woman knows in advance that the woman she’s coming onto is a lesbian?
  1. A lesbian (or anyone else) might easily perceive the trans man to be a man - either because they didn’t realise he was trans, or because they believe that trans men are men.
OP posts:
Helleofabore · 23/08/2022 21:21

keating there is never an adequate answer for this. It is always handwaved away.

TheKeatingFive · 23/08/2022 21:13

If I decide that I'm actually Māori or blind and I 'identify' as such and I'm 'upset' if others don't affirm that for me, would I get any sympathy for that position?

I fucking hope not.

So why would 'identifying' as a woman be any different?

Original poster
aseriesofstillimages · 23/08/2022 21:12

Artichokeleaves · 22/08/2022 18:57

If someone carried out a survey of the general public, I think it’s likely a majority would say that a man who is attracted only to men, including trans men who have had hormonal/surgical intervention, is gay, and a woman who is attracted only to women, including trans women who have had hormonal/surgical intervention, is a lesbian.

Why are we asking the general public what homosexual females are allowed to call themselves?

Instead of, you know, actual homosexual females? A number of whom are repeatedly telling you on this thread that no, this is not ok.

Do you believe in majority opinion from those with no skin in the game when deciding policy for a minority group? Is all the stuff about respecting a minority in naming and defining themselves now old hat?

In that case do bisexuals get to define what bisexual means, rather than lesbians, gay men or straight people defining it? If so, I’m exercising my vote to say that a person who is only interested in women (whether trans or not) or is only interested in men (ditto) is not bisexual.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 23/08/2022 21:10

I suspect many trans women would be less hurt by ‘I don’t find you attractive’ than ‘you’re not a woman’.

Yeah… I am with the women who feel offended by any male approaching a lesbian to start with and putting them knowingly in the position to reject them. But you do you.

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