Concept of ‘exclusively same sex attracted’

Indeed ClaryFairchild if a TW believes TWAW what's the issue?

I'm curious as to how often a trans woman is actually attracted and subsequently sexually active with another trans woman, you know, given that it apparently doesn't "matter" that they both have penises.....

Yes @macj1 the logically unsustainable shows exactly what the OP is trying to do and what they are trying to do is repellent and homophobic.

Leave lesbians and gay men alone, they do not need to explain, justify or apologise for their same sex attraction, to demand they do so is regressive homophobic bullshit.

All of this. ^^

Then look at the rhetoric coming from TQ+ male people.

About lesbians 'selfishly prioritising their own orgasms' (instead of sexually servicing male people who would like to identify as lesbians and have sex with female homosexuals)
That lesbians should 'learn to cope' (with sex with males who would like to identify as lesbians and have sex with female homosexuals)
That lesbians should overcome their genital fetish (and provide sex to male people who would like to identify as lesbians and have sex with female homosexuals)

This is rapey, incel based, extremist misogyny. That views females as having no right enjoying sex, or looking for reciprocation or even basic consent in sex, that views females as having no right to say no to access to their body when a male feels they need to make use of it. That views female homosexuality as an unacceptable boundary to male people getting their needs met.

If you are busy enabling this - on a women's rights board - I really have to wonder what you think you're doing and how you sleep at night.

How about ‘no thanks’. Or, ‘no thanks, i’m not attracted to you’. Or even ‘no thanks, i’m not attracted to trans women’.

"No thanks, I don't do men, I'm a lesbian." Succinct and allows the male person of whatever gender identity to find someone suitable.

yes, I agree it is distressing and unpleasant and shouldn’t happen

Then stop saying it's ok for males to do this to lesbians. Being a lesbian isn't a validation club for males to join.

Only if you are determined to read artichokes post with a bad faith interpretation.

Well, the evidence is every one of OP's posts. Decide for yourself.

Obviously the first is not ok, but the second is fine, as long as it’s done respectfully and with regard for boundaries.

If a male pesters a woman who has made it clear that she is a lesbian, that male has no regard for boundaries.

Yes, and decent men would defend you against intruders too (without invading those spaces themselves).

FROM THE OP: 'Setting aside the problems with presuming to correct another person’s understanding of their own identity, I can’t see how this absolutist approach is logically sustainable.'

To flip this, try asking your husbands/male partners if they were on a desert island, would they, for example, want to make love with Caitlyn Jenner??? Would they crave being intimate with any other well known Transwomen?

Are straight men being accused of 'restricting their dating pool' or 'being absolutist'?

Women can spot men at 50 yards, it's how we survived and evolved as a species. Nobody on this thread has tackled the simple fact of same sex attraction - I think Virginia Woolf wrote something along the lines that the remarkable thing about Sapphics was that they really LOVE women. We physically crave and love women in the way that straight women must love every physical aspect of a man - the smell of his skin, the sound of his voice. We all make love with our five senses - for lesbians to be accused of 'absolutism' is ridiculous -

After my first night with a woman I was in awe and almost jealous of straight men - I thought, 'They get to have this experience, to be able to be with a woman, just like that'....whilst I had gone through years of struggle and disgusting attempts at being with men to get to that first blissful night.

As everyone on this thread is terribly cautious, I'll say the hard bit out loud - to a lesbian, men are physically repulsive. If they weren't, I'd have loved to have been straight, happily married etc etc. Instead I've led a very different life - and now happily married to a woman, I still shudder with disgust at memories of the truly dreadful physical relationships that I had with men, before I came out.

So we have two choices as lesbians in our dating lives - to be

a) Repulsed. Revolted. Disgusted.
OR
b) Delighted, entranced, sensually ecstatic.

For the sake of someone's 'identity' young lesbians are supposed to choose a)???

If a man who suffers from gender dysphoria deserves all our sympathy - as he undergoes changes to make his life more bearable, he is still a biological man - under the clothing and despite any surgery (which I understand that 90% do not go ahead with).

We are not 'assuming to correct' anyone's 'identity' - we have, as teenagers or young women, come into our own identity - as same sex attracted. To endure the whole coming out/first loves/having to come out over and over/finally be allowed to marry --- and then at the end of all this, be told that we were mistaken, and we should have found men's bodies attractive in the first place - if only we would 'set aside our presumptions'....

You cannot set aside physical revulsion.
A biological man - no matter what his 'identity' or the investment he has made in dealing with his dysphoria - can never, ever, taste, feel, sound or smell like a woman. Ask your straight boyfriends & husbands....

Our senses cannot be obliterated to assist with a man's psychological problems.

But all of this discussion about trans women feels like a distraction from the real issue, which is about the unacceptable behaviour of individuals.

The unacceptable behaviour of individuals to a large extent exists within a social context.
The context for lesbians is surely that males should know that it's one of those few areas which is simply not for them. As with womens sport etc, transactivism and genderism has allowed and even encouraged males to indulge in what many women find to be utterly 'unacceptable behaviour'.

No. Keeping males out the lesbian bar is my solution.

But this is all implying that women who aren’t lesbians have less right to say an absolute ‘no’, or that their bodies should be available to any man?

No, it's not - what an odd inference to make.

So you think saying “I’m a lesbian so I’m not attracted to you because you’re male” would stop a rapist?

It allows you to create "lesbian only" and "women only" spaces where other women will defend you against an intruder. Rather than everyone being kind and inclusive and creating situations where you'll be having that conversation and defending yourself alone.

But this is all implying that women who aren’t lesbians have less right to say an absolute ‘no’, or that their bodies should be available to any man?

Only if you are determined to read artichokes post with a bad faith interpretation.

It's about social conventions and contracts, isn't it?

Males are bigger and stronger and can force their way into woman's rooms/toilets/bodies if they wish.

Not too long ago it was considered unthinkable for any decent male to be in the women's toilets. It was also a given that any decent male would simply leave a lesbian alone, understanding that a lesbian is not into males. If it wasn't apparent that a woman was a lesbian, a simple 'I'm a lesbian' followed by 'oh, sorry' would have been a perfectly normal exchange.

Now we have people attempting to redefine terms and muddying boundaries, in the name of validation and not hurting feelings. But the thing is, for women, those previously tacitly understood conventions provided actual physical safety and freedom from fear. Are you trying to tell us that our safety and freedom are less important? And then being confused that women get angry and try to reassert their boundaries?

‘no thanks I’m not attracted to males’

This is the fact of homosexuality

Lesbians are female homosexuals. They do not do males. How those males feel about it, or choose to name themselves, what entitlements they feel to require that a female homosexual perform some internal transubstantiation or submit themselves for retraining, female homosexuals do not do males

If male people would stop trying to re arrange female homosexuals to meet their own needs, and would be able to recognise and respect a female being homosexual without having a meltdown that this female body is not revolving around them, there would not need to be this conversation in the first place.

In reflection, given the above, how good for LGB homosexual people is this particular aspect of TQ+ politics?

Is the LGB really better with the T when one looks at belief systems like this?

Exactly.

It's been described on the thread several times as to how that question in reality goes.

And it goes that way because people like the OP get actively involved in muddling the definitions of homosexuality and lesbian for male people who want to use female homosexuals, their words and their spaces, and encourage those males in this entitlement and misogyny.

The endless repeating of 'you can just say no' is the OP's eyes closed and washing hands of the consequences of the OP's choices and politics clearly stated in the highly offensive thread title so the OP can avoid any personal responsibility for their actions.

The endless smiley refusal to listen to the voices of female homosexuals or the issues raised or to see the unpleasant bits of their agenda is also extremely offensive. And superior. And really rather colonialist. But the OP identifies as being lovely and not into coercive sex, and is representing a political position that believes that feelings create reality, that a personal reality can be created by selectively choosing the nice bits and ignoring the unpleasant realities, and that anyone who declines to enable you in your personal reality is a nasty bigot who is subhuman. (And is definitely not equally entitled to create a reality and demand the OP recognises it, because this is the privilege only of TQ+ people.)

Absolutely! And even when mislabelled as a "concept", it is still simple to understand. Yet 28 pages later, here we all are. FFS!

incidentally this thread title annoys me SO MUCH. The scare quotes!
The word 'concept' annoys me every time I see it. It's not a 'concept' ffs, it's the basic definition of 'homosexual'. The fact that some people may find they're bisexual, maybe 'homogenderal' (and that's absolutely fine of course!) doesn't somehow make same-sex attraction a 'concept' rather than a reality for others.