There’s a male in the women’s 200m final today

In the event someone genuinely did not know, he should have retired from competing in the female category once he was informed. And had a go at qualifying for one of the distances in the male athletics category.

I agree.

Where would they actually belong @StillHappy?

They are only an elite sportsperson because they are a male competing in the female class, so yes, of course they should not be there.

My husband is at about world record pace for female rowing, but was only a mediocre college rower in the (correct) male class.

Should he be allowed to compete as a woman too? He’s as fast as the fastest woman ever, should he be denied an Olympic place?

Clearly some people have read up more on this than I, but if this person was born intersex and was brought up as a female, in what sounds like pretty difficult circumstances, what do posters expect them to do? Genuine question. Do you think they should not have pursued a career in sport?

This one?

Thanks Purgatory. That is the one

I have the graph. It is possible I have high testosterone for a female adult human.

It is inconceivable that I could have male levels naturally.

Just for people to understand how very wrong this 'female/woman with high testosterone' crap actually is.

It is not correct at all. It is MISINFORMATION.

And it spreads because media has to report it in this way if they are subject to the regulations.

If you ever read that phrase again, go and look further.

This is from a PCOS advocate on twitter.

PCOS raises female testosterone to up to 5.5 nmol/L (and above 4 can cause serious issues).
5-ARD raised Caster's testosterone to 21 nmol/L.

twitter.com/NathanielHart72/status/1550916276490477568?s=20&t=E8muLvV5kUEpbPeemz8zwQ

twitter.com/seaningle/status/1537480540068225031?s=20&t=E8muLvV5kUEpbPeemz8zwQ

Sean Ingle (Guardian sports journalist) mentioned this

The latest scientific publications clearly demonstrate that the return of markers of endurance capacity to "female level" occurs within six to eight months under low blood testosterone, while the awaited adaptations in muscle mass and muscle strength/power take much longer (two years minimum according to a recent study). Given the important role played by muscle strength and power in cycling performance, the UCI has decided to increase the transition period on low testosterone from 12 to 24 months. In addition, the UCI has decided to lower the maximum permitted plasma testosterone level (currently 5 mol/L) to 2.5 mol/L. This value corresponds to the maximum testosterone level found in
99.99% of the female population.

@Zeugma yes no mention by any of the pundits. Pathetic BBC

I’d like to know why it is that, during the Olympics, I clearly recall seeing Michael Johnson et al discussing Mboma’s DSD status in some detail. It was mentioned repeatedly and carefully explained.

I’m watching the Commonwealth Games a lot and afaik not one single reference has been made to it. Why not? When, if anything, the issue has become much more a matter of current discussion and importance?

Another quote from the article

World Athletics revised its policy after it could only establish an association between performance and testosterone levels in events from 400m to 800m (1500 was added because it was deemed similar to 800.) Hence, DSD athletes can race the 200m.

Ok.. thanks. they may be 'high' for a female. But you will most likely be nowhere near what these athletes produce. There is a really good graph around that shows that it is rare for males to have anything like what is considered 'high' in females.

The top range as I mentioned was around 5 nmols. That is what these athletes have refused to drop theirs to if I remember correctly or they could compete in some events. That gives you an indication of how very misleading all this discussion about 'females with high testosterone' actually is.

World Athletics rules stipulate that women competing in races between the 400m and 1500m must have testosterone levels below five nanomoles per litre.

www.smh.com.au/sport/athletics/what-are-the-rules-for-athletes-with-differences-in-sexual-development-at-the-olympics-20210701-p585y6.html

If I find the graph, I will post it.

It's disgraceful that the sporting authorities have left this go on for so long and danced around the issue so ridiculously. Women's sports are not for men.

I know the reasons why this doesnt happen have been discussed at length, but the female competitors should refuse to compete. Nothing would solve this more quickly.

For pps, I have no idea what my testosterone levels are, I was told they were high after fertility tests when ttc my first (10 years ago).

On at 21.44pm btw

Strange.. lost half of my post.

Mboma is subject to these regulations which is a matter of public record. Details of her genitalia are not.

I say this because there is the constant messaging that these athletes are females with ‘high testosterone’. But the reality is their testosterone is likely nowhere near a maximum female level (unless the female has life threatening tumors or something similarly very serious with their health).

I am actually not asking for your testosterone levels, just making a point.

@IvorCutler ... you state that you have high testosterone levels.. would you be comfortable sharing what your level is?

The court of arbitration of sport's deliberation on this is really worth reading. If you want to PM me with your email address I can send it to you. Mboma is subject to these regulations

Are your testosterone levels above the 99 percentile of 5nm? (I think that it around the 99th).

Or does your testosterone overlap the male healthy minimum?

Thank you

Then you have a womb, a vagina and working ovaries. You developed breasts at puberty and have had menstrual periods. You also have XX chromosomes in every single cell of your body. Only women have XX chromosomes. You are a woman with higher than average testosterone levels which could disrupt your menstrual cycle but has not prevented pregnancy.

Christine Mboba doesn’t have any of those female body parts, Christine Mboba has internalised testicles and (probably) an indeterminate penis. Christine Mboba has a Y chromosome in every single cell of their body. Y chromosomes only occur in men. Christine Mboba has been through a form of male puberty as a result of their internalised testes flooding their body with testosterone, this has led to irreversible body changes such as increased muscle size and strength, increased heart and lung capacity, increased strength. Their body still produces testosterone. Christine Mboba is a man both genetically and physically although their physical male sexual organs are probably not conventional.

Well, the poor lady who missed out on a place in the final is definitely a female woman athlete.

Mboma is a man with genitals which didn't develop properly.

Scouts scour local competition to identify kids like Mboma. There was a great thread on here about Semenya a couple of months' back which was really informative.

The only way to do this is to ban all men from all women's competition and determine sex by a cheek swab which is what used to happen until the people who were pushing DSDs athletes objected.