There’s a male in the women’s 200m final today

Mboma is an xy male.
With a DSD.
But still male.

Umm.

The fastest female in the Scullers head finished 46th of 357 finishers in 2021.
The fastest female crew in the Fours head finished 36th of 410ish finishers in 2021.

Or one could compare the times from Met regatta this year to the women's world records. In 1x, 4- and 8+ the winners times are all slower than the women's world record paces.

If I were you I would be asking your husband why he is denigrating women's rowing?

I participate in grassroots competitions in my hobby. If I found out I had been winning in my category because I was male, I would stop participating in the female category from then on, and I would contact competition organisers to get the true gold medallists promoted to gold retrospectively.

This isn't some kind of incredibly hard moral dilemma. Consider the female athletes who were put on steroids in the past by corrupt sporting organisations in their home countries. They weren't always fully aware of what was going on. They were still doping and the true gold medal winners were the highest placed athletes who weren't doped.

This is shocking as well. A male in a woman's football team in Ireland. reduxx.info/irish-lgbtq-inclusive-football-team-with-transgender-player-wins-womens-junior-final/

Must be a miraculous human being to go all the way down to the 200m and do this well...

They placed at a world championship within weeks of changing events.

Everyone belongs somewhere. Everyone is either male or female. Everyone with a dsd is also either male or female.

This is a complete nonsense though? Unless your examples had the ability to do the professions you have mentioned?

Wasn't Mboma an 800m runner who moved down because of not being allowed to compete at the 800m anymore?

Must be a miraculous human being to go all the way down to the 200m and do this well...

Caster and Mboma have always known they were biological males. Heck there are photos out there of Caster at school. Where no one doubted she was a boy. They have imo both been exploited. Sports scouts look out for boys/men with these dsd. Specifically to have them compete in women's categories via current loopholes. Dsds are sex specific. Men have some. Women have others. Intersex is not a thing. None of us are going to be told out of the blue that we are men. This doesn't happen. If by any chance it did, then of course we couldn't compete as a woman just because we fancied it

I posted Mboma’s 2022 season 200m ranking earlier in the thread.

4th in the female classification.

Would be 3241st in the male classification.

But people make choices like this in all walks of life, there aren’t many blind surgeons, there aren’t many agoraphobic street cleaners, there aren’t many one legged Tarzans ( Thankyou Monty Python), there aren’t many emetaphobic nurses, there aren’t many 6 foot 6 tall flight attendants , there aren’t many colourblind bomb disposal experts………..

It was shown that when Semenya dropped their testosterone, they lost significant time.

Hence Semenya went to court about it.

The reality is, just like
transitioned males, many of these athletes are not at the peak for their sex. They perform well down the pack.

If they need a separate category, that is something that needs to be investigated. It is not ‘just’ to females to allow them to continue to compete in the female category no matter how much sympathy people have for them.

I would argue that Mboma is only “excelling” at sport because they are racing against women. If Mboma was racing against other men their performance would be mediocre at best. I could probably win a 100 m race - if I was racing against five year olds. But would it be a fair celebration of my athletic prowess , or theirs?

Ahhh. no. What would you change for unless it was something that was restricted to you now due to sex.

Genuinely not sure where you are going with this.

Are you saying these athletes lack the maturity to make ethical decisions?

I find this all very interesting and I’m really not looking to pick arguments, I just feel it is so far removed from trans women in sport. It feels like a completely different conundrum to me and I really sympathize with people who don’t belong anywhere, through no fault/choice of their own.

The regulations that are being reviewed and formulated for being passed now are designed for all males. That is where the science has moved to.

So all males will be subject to the same regulations. Those regulation will exclude males who genuinely cannot process testosterone, and they will continue to be able to compete.

While some people may feel strongly that males with DSDs and transitioned males should be treated differently, in sport the scientists and medical professionals are beginning to align to think that they shouldn’t be.

Isn’t it hypocritical to include one and not the other if both groups have the same advantages over females?

And if reports from school and family are correct and Semenya lived as a male except for sport, is that taken into account.

Socially. That might be an entirely different story.

Unless they are prepared to run as a man, ie according to their sex , then yes, find another career. Sport is about fair play on the field or track , or in the pool .

So heavyweight boxers don’t get in the ring with flyweights. Junior athletes don’t race against adults. Para athletes race within specific categories. women compete against women, men compete against men. There would be no point in sport , competition, records, etc if you knew when you put your feet in the starting blocks that the person next to you was bound to win (unless they fell over) because of an insurmountable advantage such as them having been through male puberty when you haven’t.

Having a career in sport is not a right, other careers are available, and most sports can be enjoyed at an amateur level if it is truly a passion. It doesn’t sound kind, it possibly doesn’t sound fair on a personal level, but then neither is destroying women’s sports for all time by setting impossible records and destroying the possibility of success by pandering to either a country’s or an individual’s unreasonable quest for glory.

"This identity is all Mboma has ever known. It’s not been a calculated ‘choice’ to excel in sport."

Not a calculated move perhaps on Mboma's part but definitely calculated by the Namibian Athletic Association who would have been only too aware of Mboma's status long before they hit the international stage.

But Mboma, Semenya, Masilingi, Senyi, Imali, Wambui et al will have known from
puberty that they weren’t female.

Either they have have been exploited by unscrupulous scouts / coaches / agents or they have been complicit in exploiting women’s sport. Or both. They know they’re not female and yet choose to compete in wonen’s events.

The kind of money on offer in events like the Diamond League must be quite the temptation.

But they’re still not female and have no place in women’s sport.

Genuine question, if someone told you you were male after a blood test, after having lived your life up until now as a female what would you do? Would you change occupation, partner, hobbies etc? Or would you continue as you are?

Agreed. Though it depends if it is a male dsd or a female dsd?

If it is a male DSD, she is cheating.

And Mboma had known they were male for some time now.

Once they understand they are male, I would expect them to either compete as a male OR if there is any disability involved with their difference of sex development work with authorities to establish their own category.

Absolving them of making an informed decision by saying ‘it is difficult’ or ‘it is complicated’ when the current science shows that it is not, is taking away their responsibility to choose to do the right thing.

Five years ago, it may have been a different story. But there is enough data now that these athletes can responsibly make a mature decision to respect females. Or do you feel they don’t have that choice for some reason?

I really feel strongly about this being different to trans women in sport. This identity is all Mboma has ever known. It’s not been a calculated ‘choice’ to excel in sport.

We don’t necessarily know that these DSD athletes were brought up “female”. Semenya seems to have followed a more masculine path.

www.newindianexpress.com/sport/2009/aug/20/why-caster-wore-male-uniform-at-school-78998.amp

Pursue a career in sport?

Absolutely, but in the appropriate sex category.