Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

Hey Bodice do you mean the other thread? X

Right. But somehow people insist on seeing room for ambiguity.

seriously, as already pointed out, the intuition and empirical evidence are as one on this: (1) males are incomparably more prone to violent crime than females; (2) 'trans women' are very much male in this regard (as, indeed, they are in almost any other tangible regard that I can think of).

Well how on earth do women know who is safe and who isn't? Your friends know their male friends, they wouldn't be doing that with complete strangers so it's hardly a comparison. What is the point of single sex spaces in the first place? They are because we obviously don't know male strangers.

By this logic all women are being dreadfully unkind to all males then by closing them off from their changing rooms?

I would just say that she and the other women do not feel comfortable or safe in varying states of undress in a changing area that’s being used by a man, and ask the management how they plan to ensure that the women don’t have to give up their private space.

Can you imagine how sick and tired you'd be of it by the time your 80 too?

I would think an elderly woman would be considered at risk. Can you / your mum discuss this with the person, who oversees the lessons?

This.

It's literally what often keeps us safe.

I think the OP is expressing concerns that a biological male is changing with her elderly mother. Or are you one of those people who thinks a penis is a female sex organ?

/// Quite.

OP there's a depressing pattern today on MN of posters who believe a biological male and his feelings and "right to be" - WTAF that means - is more important than safeguarding kids and vulnerable adults.

I don't know your mum but yes she could quite rightly be in this bracket

Op read through the link below

fairplayforwomen.com/equality-act-2010_womens-rights/

I would not get fancy in the letter just ask if the school is going to avail of the single sex exemption (or not) to lawfully exclude all male persons from the womens communally changing areas.

If they are going to avail of the exemption could they clearly detail via a map which areas were single sex and which are mixed sex.

If they confirm they will provide single sex provision a follow up letter could ask about communicating that to all members.

If there is a minimum of signage ask if they plan to improve this

If they plan to provide all the users with a copy of the map
This would avoid members accessing the communal areas they should not be using and avoid any confusion or embarrassment.

Etc

I made the point about women being pushed to the side to accommodate man and why couldn’t men be more accommodating and kind in the mens facilities this point needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

I think @hearmywomanlyroar summed it up nicely there. We shouldn't be burdened with having to explain cleverly why we don't feel safe sharing our changing rooms with males, the powers that be should respect the fact that women and girls need / deserve the dignity of sex segregated safe spaces.

I started a conversation about what the sports centre I go to would do about trans women in the changing room. It was a good attempt but not perfect. We got into the rights of religious minorities - Muslim women in particular - and got sidetracked by requirements for single sex swimming - ie blinds drawn on windows - and then veered into experience of trans women that the chap I was talking knew about. He said, more of less, it wasn’t really a problem and I made the point about women being pushed to the side to accommodate man and why couldn’t men be more accommodating and kind in the mens facilities.

I really wish I had asked the question, if there was a trans women who wanted to change in the women’s section and a woman who didn’t want a man with full genitalia (however they described themselves) in the changing room, whose's point of view and wishes (and rights in terms of single sex provision) would they recognise? Ie how many women’s opinions are worth one trans women’s wishes. And their wishes as gender identity is not a protected characteristic.

it was a good practice run though. 😀

What an absurd post. This is about risk involving a stranger whose intentions you have to take on pure trust/blind faith.

e.g. a couple of years ago I'd have been more than happy for my brother, a heterosexual man in his 30s, to help my [then] young daughter get changed before and after swimming. Because I know and trust him.

would I have been happy about a volunteer man of the same age, who was a stranger to me, volunteer to do the same when my daughter's primary school went on a school swimming lesson? emphatically no.

This person is male if they have a penis.

Any male with the entitlement to barge into the women and girl's changing area is, by definition, someone who should not be there.

Does her being trans make her more of a threat than any other women? Would a lesbian, for example, be treated with the same assumptions?

There are no "other" women in the situation, there is a man and there are women. Yes men are more of a threat to women than lesbians on account of their sex. It is sex and not sexual attraction which determines the level of risk. There are plenty of stats to support that claim.

Tell me again how gender ideology isn't lesbophobic but apparently it's the women being mean spirited. FFS

So by that logic you'd be happy sharing changing rooms with all men until they do something bad?

As far as I can tell she (I don’t believe you can change biological sex but I am happy to use somebody’s preferred pronouns) hasn’t actually done anything at all other than use a locker?! She didn’t get changed with your elderly mother, she didn’t get naked in front of the other biological women, she just quickly put a swim cap in a locker? Maybe there weren’t any other lockers available where she did get changed?
you’re all assuming she’s about to assault somebody, which is unfair.

You can never be too careful. Statistics show it's men (even ones who say they are women) doing the vast majority of the assaulting, raping, and violence 🤷‍♀️ like it or not, it's the truth

Your friends who share a bed with gay male friends are making a choice. These elderly ladies would like to choose to share their locker room with women.

Why should they need to quiz a man on his genitals, history of assault, or sexual orientation cause you'd love it if they did, not before deciding if they want to share space with him? They already know they don't.

For the faux confused. Here are the reasons to exclude trans women from women's changing rooms:

1. Women are entitled to single sex spaces.

The end.

What about the fact they weee actively staring at the little girls. Do we just have to ignore creepy behavior now because it’s their right?

This is very presumptive. So, even if she is biologically male (have they seen the naked parts?) who says she is interested in women? Or assaulting elderly ladies? I know women who share beds etc with gay male friends. Should they be terrified incase those friends decide because they have a penis they should assault someone? Maybe they should attempt to say hello to this person and see them as a person who just wants a quiet swim. I'm sure life has been cruel enough to them. Fair enough if she was making advances or being threatening but... Using a locker?!

I would go mad tbh. I'd probably be asking to speak to the pool manager. Worlds gone mad in my opinion. Women and children need safe spaces from men. Women are still being assaulted by 'transwomen'. This is 100% an issue.