Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

Exactly? I wasn't referring specifically about the example in the OP. I meant at all/in general.

they never seem to care too much about trans men

Because they are female. Not male.

The boundaries of women were transgressed against their consent. Those women were violated.

It is a single sex space; it is a changing room designated for members of the female sex. Those females consented, by entering the space, to share it with other members of the female sex. The door is the boundary. Any male who crosses the threshold of that door and enters that female space is transgressing the boundaries of those females against their consent. Those females have never consented to that space being a mixed sex space.

But yes I agree in this day and age single person occupancy provision like cubicles is the best way anyway. Then the usual family rooms and a larger communal area for people who don't care.

Basically what I've seen at almost any pool or gym I've come across to be fair

And this is whats putting me off starting to swim again, which I so need to do for my mental health, fuck going in a changing room right now & fuck all you who are bullying & gas lighting traumatised women to accept men in their desperately needed safe spaces.

Then 'she' is really not a woman, is she. Because she's deliberately choosing to make women uncomfortable with her presence, despite having another option that doesn't involve changing with men.

Women don't pull this shit. Men do, regardless of how they identify.

Women have the right to undress without a penis being present. It is that simple.

It is not ok. It is never ok for men to take away the right of women to have privacy in single space settings.

It's well known that transphobic women are often heavily bias against transwomen because they see being trans as nothing more than a sexual fetish, they never seem to care too much about trans men. They would likely make a less aggressive but still trans phobic comment like how they're just confused lesbians or something.

Single sex spaces= no one except small children of the opposite sex allowed.

Presumably these women who share beds with male friends do so BY CHOICE and don't have this forced upon them? Presumably they know and trust the male friends? Allowing biological males into a WOMEN'S SPACE is not okay, period. I don't care who they're attracted to. They aren't biological women. Women have enough to navigate through life without having to have their safe spaces taken away from them too.

Women are vulnerable to males in mixed sex facilities. That's why single sex spaces are generally offered. It's also for our privacy, dignity and peace of mind, as well as a respite from being stared at and sexually harassed.

Maybe they should attempt to say hello to this person and see them as a person who just wants a quiet swim.

No male using female changing facilities JUST wants a quiet swim. Using female spaces is validating for them. Why should women tolerate being treated as props by men?

Unless this man entered the sports club wearing nothing but a swimsuit and swimming cap then they changed in the women's changing rooms unless we think they randomly put their swimming cap in an empty locker in the women's changing room whilst all of their other possessions were in a different locker and changing room.

@Dreamwhisper if it was transphobia, presumably the women would be equally unhappy about a trans man in the female changing room?

But they probably wouldn't. Because the trans man would be biologically female and therefore most likely a non-risk to other females.

I agree though that where only single sex changing facilities are available, it puts trans people in a very difficult position. Private, unisex changing facilities would sort this. Individual floor to ceiling lockable cubicles, individual lockable shower cubicles, etc. It's really not that hard. Any transwoman insisting upon using a female-only single sex space when there are private unisex facilities available is really not putting the safety and comfort of other women first. Which kind of suggest they are not as 'womanly' as they like to think.

Christ, did the first reply seriously compare lesbians to men? Are you aware that your views are homophobic?

And no. Women don't ever have to take the time to question and get to know somebody who makes them feel uncomfortable. Stop telling women to lower their boundaries and risk their safety. This isn't some kind of theoretical exercise. If I encountered a person out and about who made me feel unsafe or uncomfortable, I sure as hell wouldn't be quashing my natural reaction in case I come across as rude or judgmental. I'd protect myself in whatever way seemed best at the time. Back in the real world, men pose a threat to women and I'm not going to hang around and figure out whether my instincts are correct or not. The risk of harm is too high.

I honestly don't understand why people don't get why this is an issue. I'm an older lady and I feel extremely uncomfortable getting dried and changed after a shower in front of my husband. So uncomfortable in fact that he wouldn't dare come into the bedroom while I'm doing it. So why on earth is it ok to expect me to accept doing so in front of a biological male who is a complete stranger to me?

Every day life is not a place where you can demand single sex spaces in all situations precisely because it puts trans people in an impossible position.

Women should have single sex spaces anywhere they take their clothes off.

What is this "impossible position" that means males can't use the appropriate space for their sex?

This just smacks of transphobia to me. Single sex spaces should be protected where the ends justifies the means, sure - i.e. women only DV and sexual violence support, and such settings designed specifically for women in vulnerable positions.

Every day life is not a place where you can demand single sex spaces in all situations precisely because it puts trans people in an impossible position.

OP you should know well enough that you could call or ring them to discuss this and they would either oblige you or tell you they don't feel the need to do anything.

You've posted this in mumsnet sex and gender so you clearly know what's what and just wanted everyone to agree with how awful it is that this poor transwoman did something you don't agree with.

They walked through a changing room where women were getting changed.

They don't have to 'do' anything.

Male bodied people do not belong in spaces where women are in a state of undress

This. It's like people think women's feelings, our privacy and dignity don't matter at all. Pure sexism.

No, I'm afraid YOU are wrong. The person may FEEL like a woman, however, they are in fact a man, because they have a penis. That is the difference.

And actually, I personally think, in this situation, threat from this person is irrelevant. They are almost certainly not a threat and are probably, generally, a nice person. However, if they really were nice, they would understand and realise they are making elderly ladies uncomfortable and mitigate that by not going into their space. No woman should have to worry about being naked in front of someone who has a penis.

Noonecaresifyounamechange
"Out of curiosity, how do you know she is trans?"

You have a point: might not be a trans woman, just a man who has thought up a scheme to get access to vulnerable women while they undress.

Of course I'm not suggesting this is the case for the individual in question.

@Lollypip

“I know women who share beds etc with gay male friends. Should they be terrified incase those friends decide because they have a penis they should assault someone?”

Absolutely no comparison; the women you refer to have made an informed choice, and you say it yourself, they share beds with their gay male friends.

The OP refers to a situation which is making a group of elderly women uncomfortable within what was considered a safe space for them. They do not know this individual, do not know their motive (40 year old TW attending aqua aerobics with women in their 70s and 80s?) and this scenario is becoming more and more widely reported.

How would I feel if I came across a TW in the changing room of my gym (a well known chain across the UK)? I wouldn’t be happy. If boys over the age of 7 aren’t allowed in there, nor should TW. It truly is lunacy. For the same reason, it’s considered best practice to not allow male cleaners in the female changing rooms and vice versa.

It’s a changing room for heavens sake - why can’t areas like this be allowed to function in the way they were intended without a minority trying to flex the rules for their own agenda.