Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

It’s quite a simple question:

do you think I should share changing rooms and toilets with men?

let’s rephrase it to make it less personal, that might make you more comfortable about answering

do you think transwomen should be able to use women’s toilets and changing rooms?

both questions are really the same if you give it a little thought

Am I asking you to share as in do I support the law as it is right now?

Why do you keep mentioning the law as if the law gives these males special rights to access female only spaces? It does not. They use them because they decided that they could. It's not enshrined in law.

Why do you think we have had sex segregated spaces ?

Obviously I was basing my answer on the former and not the latter. I would simply feel sorry for someone if they were berated for having an "erection" when they're simply towelling themselves off. But I don't know what happened.

Males shouldn't be "towelling themselves off" in a female only space, and then there wouldn't be these mishaps.

It's just pure sexism and misogyny, from all who support it.

What garbage! So a woman who has been subjected to male violence has a right to a single sex DV unit but has to forget her trauma if she goes swimming? Do you honestly think trauma can be compartmentalised and doesn't encroach on what you consider "everyday life"? If so you've never experienced trauma...

Why are you acting like I hold so much power over you? It's very off putting and I don't think it's hitting with the resonance you think it is.

I haven't written the law around the reasonable inclusion or exclusion of transgendered people from various public or group spaces. I'm so so confused what your point is.

Am I asking you to share as in do I support the law as it is right now? Well I guess so. But in that case you asking the opposite is asking me to be discriminatory, which is also something I'm not comfortable with. Who wins then?

This sounds like a reach to me. I will admit I haven't read the article, the thread is fast moving and Im preparing dinner.

Was it an erection because they were aroused or is it an erection like when I change my baby boy's poo nappy and the motion of the wipes triggers it?

Obviously I was basing my answer on the former and not the latter. I would simply feel sorry for someone if they were berated for having an "erection" when they're simply towelling themselves off. But I don't know what happened.

I don't really know why there aren't just single spaces for all this shit. I'm shy I don't like to change in front of ANYONE.

And even without my own sentiments single spaces seem just so much less controversial.

How sad that you don’t believe privacy and dignity when in a state of undress is a legitimate purpose. Do you think religious belief is legitimate? because my Jewish and Muslim female friends wouldn’t be able to use this changing room. Their legitimate religious beliefs are being eroded.

I think you are asking me to share women’s toilets and changing rooms with men (you would say transwomen)

is that not the case?

OP, you may want to refer to this guidance which was released in May by the EHRC; there is no 'high bar' as some would have you believe.

"To establish a separate or single-sex service, you must show that you
meet at least one of a number of statutory conditions (set out in this
section of the guide) and that limiting the service on the basis of sex is a
proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. For example, a
legitimate aim could be for reasons of privacy, decency, to prevent
trauma or to ensure health and safety."

So, to be very clear, a legitimate aim would be the privacy and dignity of those ladies in the female only changing rooms.

Page 5
www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/guidance-separate-and-single-sex-service-providers-equality-act-sex-and-gender-reassignment-exceptions.pdf

This person isn’t a woman.
They know this is a trans person because he is male. Obviously.

I'm talking about good customer service as in accommodating her needs and wishes for a single sex space even if their wider policy is that they don't by default exclude transgendered people with their corresponding single sex space (that matches their gender identity)

Good customer service...

I'm sure a polite education and maybe even a spa voucher will make her feel better that her boundaries and feeling of comfort come second in a female single sex space.

Her's and those of all other women who are interested in single sex spaces.

Never mind.

Probably confusing you with another poster, or your posts about voyeurism were basically the same.

*Do I believe that going round with an erection in public spaces is a sexual offence?

I'm 99.9% sure (and hope) that it is.

Am I convinced that the law around this needs to be changed based on that case? No.*

Well then we better hope no TW ever has an involuntary erection in a female changing room like Lia Post did.

Single sex spaces exist as much to protect TW as women. And by that I mean TW not being in a position to get accused of voyeurism because they are still attracted to women and may have a visible erection as a normal part of the attraction.

@Lollypip
give me an example of a TW assaulting a woman in a changing room

yep, okay, in an American High School a ‘ trans girl’ raped a natal girl in the changing rooms. Expelled and and moved to another school where they did it again.

That's not my intention at all, I actually said the exact opposite. I said stand by your beliefs but realise the poster I was referring to was being about as transphobic as you can get. Assuming that someone has a bad, even criminal character because of their sexual orientation or gender identity is the definition of prejudice.

I'm not asking anyone to change anything. But I think if you are going to write stuff like that, you should be aware that other people can and will react.

I haven't at any point demanded anything of anyone. I obviously come from the other side of the argument, but how is me expressing my views demanding other people change theirs? What makes it the case that I am asking for change, but people disagreeing with me in the same manner are not?

Is your question genuine? Or are you asking it rhetorically to victimise yourself in order to make me look unreasonable?

Why is this relevant? If tomorrow they're comfortable enough to actually start changing with everyone else, and have their penis out - is it suddenly unacceptable? Or if other TW start using it, as it's now precedence, does that mean someone needs to be monitoring changing rooms 24/7 about what they're doing in there?

Surely it's far easier for everyone including TW to have their own facilities and single sex spaces to be exactly that, single sex.

Oh come on, you knew what I meant. A lady in her 80s isn't going to beat someone up for identifying as a female. A bunch of 40 year olds, absolutely might. Maybe you live in an area where people are dignified but hate crime is a massive problem in most of the UK.

///

I would be gobsmacked if this was to happen. I feel I'm safe not googling as the chance is vanishingly small.

As for hate crime committed by this demographic ... again I'm confident this is statistically rare . Although I often give the Scan and Go machine in Asda a few choice words when going about my Wifey Duties.

I feel sorry for her, she just wants to use the changing rooms. She just wants to swim and not feel uncomfortable blah blah blah.

Why so much sympathy on this thread for a man who is choosing to use the womens changing rooms and so little for the right of women to use those spaces and feel comfortable to do so without sharing the space with men. No one born male who identifies as a woman is actually a woman...... no matter how its sugar coated - they are still a man. Most likely still have a penis.

No way would I be happy sharing a womens changing facility with a man and no way would I want my children to do so.

Most WOMEN perfectly understand why older ladies require some personal privacy in the changing room and don't want to be seen undressing by a man.

The transperson's privacy had been catered for in a separate changing area. So they had no need to intrude on the old ladies area , disrespect their privacy.

The first step to convincing society "I'm a woman", has to be , stop thinking and behaving like a male chauvinist .

I think I've made my points pretty clearly on your thread already. I think they're pretty simple.

A female in a state of undress IS vulnerable.

@Dreamwhisper have you considered that no one is asking you to change your behaviour and beliefs, but you are asking many women here to do junior that, and then using pejorative terms like ‘transphobic’ when they object

you are happy with mixed sex changing rooms and similar. That’s fine, use them with my blessing (not that I expect you to care!)

I am not happy with mixed sex changing rooms. I accept the evidence that using them would put me at increasing risk of being a victim of voyeurism for example.

why are you asking me to change my behaviour and beliefs?