Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

oh man I love a video of cats falling off things

Isn't there a YouTube video of cats hilariously falling off sideboards you can post your lol emojis on?

Honestly ive never posted on mumsnet

Really? I'd never have guessed!

mmm

are you going to address any of my points?

do you have the courage of your convictions and can you back them up?

Again, so nice that people find women's distress hilarious. It's great for the lurkers.

"My way" IS the current way things operate btw

I wasn't the one making the far fetched point that one of the reasons we should exclude trans women from changing rooms is in case they get an erection and the women involved get the wrong end of the stick!!

It's not anything to do with getting the wrong end of the stick (nice pun), it's a violation in and of itself for women to be exposed to males with an erection. It's sexual harassment.

I was obviously being sarcastic that was my point! I wasn't the one making the far fetched point that one of the reasons we should exclude trans women from changing rooms is in case they get an erection and the women involved get the wrong end of the stick!!

I don't think there's really much more for me to reiterate here. I've stated I don't agree with a lot of points and I've stated the reasons why. I've seen some very obvious transphobia and I've seen some interesting points.

FWIW for the poster telling me I would have let a man with learning difficulties alone, unsupervised into a public toilet. I most certainly not have. Many things could have been done and my whole point the whole time has been, there is nuance and plenty of circumstances where it is NOT appropriate for someone identifying as a woman, but are not a woman, should not be in a female space.

Please don't pretend that there is not the capacity for sensible decision making when it comes to this, just because you are incapable of seeing that.

No, just violating the privacy and dignity of a group of elderly women, glad you find it so hilarious. The point about human shields was made because of the huge DANGER this male would have faced using the correct changing rooms, apparently.

That’s precisely how safeguarding works. I have to undertake annual safeguarding training and have regular DBS checks. Not because I’m a risk, but because I’m a POTENTIAL risk.
Ignoring safeguarding because not all males, which includes TW, are rapists, is dangerous in the extreme.

Also to your point - aren't TW THEMSELVES prejudiced against men? They are using women's spaces (apparently), because they are fearful or anxious about the reactions of other men. And as men themselves they will be in a better place to know what typical men are like.Yet women are somehow supposed to be the human shields to protect them from the perceived threat of other males.

Well said. TW with a penis feel too uncomfortable being around others with a penis so they decide to enter the space of women and make them feel uncomfortable around a penis. And that's ok. Madness.

To be fair I still think saying "I'm asking" you to do that is too emotive and overly personal.

we are talking about real life here. it's personal. if facing the reality of your opinions makes you uncomfortable is that not a sign of something?

I don't see how that is any more or less demanding than you saying to me, I don't agree that trans people should be allowed in any single sex spaces. Because you're "asking me" then, to be comfortable with excluding trans women from any womens public toilet etc. And no, I don't actually agree with that. Isn't that clear?

But if you get your way I have no single sex toilets and changing rooms. If you get your way you are at liberty to seek out and use mixed sex changing rooms and toilets if that's what you prefer.

Your way = choices for you, zero choices for me
my way = choices for you, choices for me

Why did you feel the need to frame it as me, personally, asking you, personally, to do so?

because as above, this is real life. Katie Dolatowski, a man who identified as a woman sexually assaulted a 10 year old girl in a women's super market toilet.

His carer let him go in there because he identifies as a woman. if you had been his carer you would have let him go into that women's toilet. If I had been his carer I would not have allowed it. your beliefs have practical consequences

Also to your point - aren't TW THEMSELVES prejudiced against men?

Yes, but that's different, because reasons.

The first step to convincing society "I'm a woman", has to be, stop thinking and behaving like a male chauvinist .

I mean why though, when you get so much fawning praise for it.

You can't discriminate against all of them based on the fact that some people might abuse that.

They don't actually have to do anything, women expect males not to enter a female space so they are already violating women's privacy and dignity. They've already caused harm, even inadvertently. Even the lovely ones. Although I would say the lovely ones would respect women and girls enough to use a different space.

"It's very easy to try and shut people down by bringing out examples of awful things happening but it's not really fair to hold all people accountable and make decisions that prejudice an entire demographic of people because of some criminal peoples' appalling actions."

Given that approx 98% of all sexual crimes are committed by men, that statistic pretty much speaks for itself.

I'm still going to be wary of a man walking behind me at night if I'm alone. He might be the nicest man in the world, but as a woman I am forced to accept the reality of my body, my vulnerabilities and my sex. And I follow my instincts to protect myself.
And I will tell my daughters to do the same thing.
Men as a species have proven themselves to be a greater threat to women. That is not to say that individual men are lovely, kind and safe.

The point is that it makes most women uncomfortable. The TW doesn't have to be a predator of ANY kind (although I would argue that any man who goes into a female space will know that they are making those females uncomfortable, and does it anyway, is not as kind hearted as they could be).
The TW just has to be a MAN.
It is their presence which is the issue, not the "potential" of their criminality.
I don't care if that makes me prejudiced quite frankly.
It's why single sex spaces have existed in the past.

Also to your point - aren't TW THEMSELVES prejudiced against men? They are using women's spaces (apparently), because they are fearful or anxious about the reactions of other men. And as men themselves they will be in a better place to know what typical men are like.
Yet women are somehow supposed to be the human shields to protect them from the perceived threat of other males.

The first step to convincing society "I'm a woman", has to be, stop thinking and behaving like a male chauvinist .

Yep.

don't think any decent trans woman would need "protecting" from female changing rooms in case anyone thought ill of there actually perfectly innocent erections

Missed this.

I meant women and girls (remember them?) are vulnerable, not the males accessing female spaces against the wishes of the women and girls and having "perfectly innocent erections" 🙄