Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

Male, female, mixed-sex, disabled.

This has been suggested by feminists from the outset, but 'third spaces' are rejected as 'othering'.

I would vote with my feet and just leave. I suggest your mother does the same.

I think I love you @SweetSenorita

I think that poster would be most upset at your questioning Laurel's right to compete as a woman, as that is 'transphobic'.

Laurel has been oppressed and victimized all her life and deserves the right to compete as herself, don't you know?

"The numbers of trans people - people identifying as women and having a brain more similar to women then men"

If you're talking about the pink/blue brain theory, that was debunked YEARS ago.

Although it does tick off another bingo card box.

They do not have "lady brains" FFS.

What. A. Fucking. Load. Of. Cockcustard!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And for the record, we ARE going to win this.

Get back to your fucking biscuits!

The numbers of trans people - people identifying as women and having a brain more similar to women then men is very very very unlikely to want to attack your mother for wanting a swim. This is what people used to say about lesbians - as most attacks on women are those who are attracted to women. Utter crap.

Ugh this is what my brain is CONSTANTLY swinging back and forth between.

My heart is pulled both ways. Surely the only safe way forward is single spaces for any vulnerable activity - dressing, toileting, all of that.

No, you're right, I have been judgemental. I don't think in some cases it has been unwarranted.

But yes, I do understand. I do understand how knowing those statistics as well would make one feel not comforted by someone identifying as female.

It's a difficult, difficult situation.

He can use the male facilities. There is no reason for him not to do so.

Why, by the way, are you referring to a male as “she”? Why do you think that that’s how he wants to be referred to?

Her mother was semi-naked and no, doesn't want strange males to see her in that situation.

Why on earth is that wrong?

And I do still think this is what I can't get over. What about transwomen who have spent large proportions of their lives on hormones, or have had gender reassignment surgery?

There are so many trans people that I look up to and respect, and some that I just see are vulnerable people themselves. I absolutely refuse to "not give a shiny shit" about them and I refuse to hold the belief that there's "no such thing" as being transgender.

That is the harmful and disgusting rhetoric that does make this place a bit of a laughing stock.

Trans women, being male, offend at the same rate as other males.

You are wrong about their rights. Single-sex facilities are perfectly permissible, so an organisation does have the right to stop males using the female facilities, and women should not be made to feel bad for insisting on this being the norm.

It's like what I saw on a another thread -

Trans - Can I sit down?
Women - Yeah sure, plenty of room at the table
Trans - No I want your seat.

100%.

does this mean that women who don't want transwomen to use women's toilets and changing rooms may not be transphobic?

kudos on this reply - it's not often I see someone here rethinking a little

This thread is so depressing. This person put their hat in a locker and then went off to swim.

Your mother feels this is a threat?
This poor person just wants to feel normal and go for a swim.

The numbers of trans people - people identifying as women and having a brain more similar to women then men is very very very unlikely to want to attack your mother for wanting a swim. This is what people used to say about lesbians - as most attacks on women are those who are attracted to women. Utter crap.

You’re not going to win this.

This makes a lot of sense, thank you for the measured and non judgemental response.

It makes such a difference when information is given without a cloud of offensiveness.

It sounds like single sex spaces and individual spaces are the best option. I do still have questions and I'll look in different places for answers and studies and discussion of those studies. But this is a useful if not disappointing post. It's sad to hear as obviously there's still lots of very vulnerable trans women who will be victimised based on these statistics.

But it does sound like it doesn't work so well.

@Dreamwhisper if you don't want to talk about women being locked up with and assaulted by sexual predators (and I'll grant you, that is very upsetting), we could talk about Roviel Detenamo

She’s from Nauru, a small island in the Pacific Ocean. Weightlifting is a big deal in Nauru

She would have gone to the Tokyo Olympics in 2020, representing Nauru for weightlifting

she lost her place because Laurel Hubbard, a man, took a place in her Olympic weight category

Is her lost opportunity acceptable collateral damage for Laurel Hubbards dignity in being able to compete as a woman?

D*reamwhisper

'I feel like [transphobic posters] world view only makes sense if one views trans women as violent, heterosexual, brutish sex predators whose sole interest in life is accessing women to abuse.'
*
Just to be clear - we view transwomen as men.

And if you feel soooo threatened and marginalised in that space, campaign for a further safe one. Or campaign for men to understand your position.

It's like what I saw on a another thread -

Trans - Can I sit down?
Women - Yeah sure, plenty of room at the table
Trans - No I want your seat.

People do get heated on both sides. you have accused people with what I would consider to be perfectly reasonable views of transphobia. I hope that I haven't insulted you, that has certainly not been my intention.

I'm very interested to hear your thoughts about the practical implications of your views.

If you don't want to talk about Katie Dolotowski (and I'll grant you it is upsetting), let's talk about the four women prisoners who were sexually assaulted by a transwoman while they were locked up with him

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10406351/I-sexually-assaulted-transgender-rapist-womens-jail.html

Are their sexual assaults a reasonable price to pay for that transwoman's dignity - being incarcerated with women?

This x a million!

Jesus. I am not prioritising males feelings AT ALL. I'm just not a narrow minded individual and can comprehend the fight that transpeople fight alongside fighting for women's rights. Its not a race to the bottom.

@Whattheheckinhell So unless you agree that TWAW and are entitled to be in every space women are you're narrow minded?

What is their fight out of interest? What rights elude trans people that everyone else has?

I'm just not prejudice against trans women, I don't believe the vast, vast majority of people who identify as trans women or trans men do so for any other reason that because of how they feel about their own self and identity.

Neither do I. However, I don't give a shiny shit about how they feel regarding their own self and identity (whatever the fuck that means). If you were born male, you're male: use the male facilities. If you were born female, you're female: use the female facilities.

So what is a transwoman and what is this damascian process they go through that stops them offending at the same rate as men? How can we tell it is a transwoman and not a man pretending to be a transwoman? Why will you NEVER answer these questions?
One thing is certain, predatory men will abuse any opportunity. If it isn't too much effort to become a priest or hide in hollow walls they sure as hell will say 'i am a woman' to get to victims. Naive is a kind word to describe you.
Ps. And the offending rates are just the same for tw and men. No great surprise their.
Pps. Pointing this out is NOT transphobic.
Ppps. Try giving a shit about women and girls

Ps @Dreamwhisper

I would very happily campaign for more third spaces for trans women. As would many on here. There is a compromise position.