Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

The person in question has a male body.

Women who are uncomfortable changing around male bodied people can now not attend the class.

Muslim women who are not allowed to change around male bodied people can now not attend the class.

Why is their discomfort and potential of them stopping a class they enjoy less important than the wishes of a male bodied person?

Why does the trans woman in question do something that makes the elderly women in question uncomfortable despite being offered their own women only changing room?

As for the fact they are unlikely to be a predator - so are most men, but none of them are allowed in female only single sex spaces because of both the safety and dignity of the women who wish to use those single sex spaces.

So again I ask, why is the safety and dignity and comfort of a group of natal women using a shared changing room less important than the wishes of an individual trans woman who has access to their own private changing room?

I go to a class which is mostly women. In the communal changing rooms we have a laugh and chat. I don't want to use a cubicle. I want to chat in a male-free space for 10 minutes. A male should not be there and is not welcome there. Why is that so hard to understand? I also think it is very beneficial for women to see female bodies of all ages. We are bombarded with images of perfect bodies when the reality is very different.

I think it's quite interesting that none of the people criticising the op is even attempting to answer my question.

I think they might be saddened and ashamed realising that some women have higher and stronger boundaries around their need for safety and privacy than they do, and that those women are perfectly reasonable to have those boundaries.

The pool really needs to provide a solution so that the transwoman and your mum feel safe.

They have. Read the OP's posts. The male chose to ignore it.

Why would their safety be under threat? Who from?

The eternally never answered question.

I think that when posters try to answer it, they realise just how crap that logic is and how hypocritical the statement is. Maybe, just maybe they might think that they have been sold in the mantra of ‘most vulnerable and marginalised’ and have outsourced their critical thinking skills to self declared social media influencers.

Well. You could hope they realise that.

*you're

If your saddened and ashamed, perhaps you can help me out here, in order that I can get where you're coming from.

This is the third time I've asked this question, I'm hoping I might get an answer from someone.

What is the benefit to the OPs mum and friends of having a male use the changing room where they are getting dressed and undressed?

Yeah. No erections are ‘innocent’. Whoever said that needs to get a fucking grip.

Why would their safety be under threat? Who from?

Ok. But what about a male?

You do realise that even if you are fine with males sharing communal changing rooms with females, you actually don’t get to consent for people who have very valid reasons for not consenting.

And if you are not happy to share with a male, why does it change if they have declared they are a women? What makes them different in your view?

Frankly I am sick and tired of all these women who are claiming that they use mixed sex communal changing areas when it is very clear that they do not.

No, you go to a place which provides single sex provision.

I use the Acquatics Centre in London and all the changing rooms are mixed.

By changing room you mean that the circulation areas to and from the private single sex cubicle.

You get into a private single sex cubicle to change of course because you would not willing to change in a public mixed sex communal changing area, but but there are no separate mixed sex open communal changing rooms for men and women, anyone can wander around and pick whatever locker they wish to use because the lockers are not located in the private single sex cubicle nor in a mixed sex open communal changing rooms .

The space an unoccupied private single sex cubicle is also cleaned by male and female cleaners.

They have put separate single sex shower spaces though because you would not be willing to shower naked in a mixed sex shower area .

There have never been any issues reported in the local media, such as ,

www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/crime/paedophile-who-attempted-to-film-girls-in-changing-rooms-is-3245168

www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/crime/alleged-sexual-assault-at-swiss-cottage-leisure-centre-8489586

metro.co.uk/2022/06/04/pcso-who-filmed-children-in-swimming-pool-changing-room-jailed-16769712/amp/

www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/19513931.man-sexually-assaulted-woman-learning-difficulties-pool/

news.sky.com/story/metropolitan-police-officer-swaleh-chaudhry-charged-with-voyeurism-and-making-an-indecent-image-of-child-12579331

bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-49836843.amp

I have no idea why you think that someone who just wants to enjoy a swim would primarily be there to assault women just because she happens to be trans. To me that is absolutely shocking.

Really, a male entering into a women's communal changing room is normal ?

examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/disgraced-former-pricewaterhouse-coopers-accountant-19989644.amp

So this ⬆️ bloke only wanted to arrive at his train stop and when he was out and about previous the 1500+ women involved in his non contact sex offending all consented to his abuse?

Frankly I am sick and tired of all these thread where women are suggesting that other women just by existing should ignore her needs and wants and agree to prioritise random males.

It really saddens me and makes me ashamed of that brand of MRA being described as feminism.

I don't see the problem with another woman in the changing room.

This isn't about another woman using the changing room, obviously that wouldn't be a problem as it's a female space.

I believe a PP said that transwomen in biological women’s changing rooms sometimes get “innocent erections” which needs to be ignored or you are a bigot, but there might be some erections which are bad?

Yes that was a particular highlight of the thread.

I don't see the problem with another woman in the changing room. Unless they are a criminal, which could apply to anyone. Is everyone CRB checked?

Sorry Fraaahnces, that should have ended with

Could be where you are and how updated your changing areas are. All the places I went were older and probably due for renovation.

@FunnyTalks
Funny how the ones crying "prude" when we point out a desire to not be made vulnerable to sexual assault are also the ones so keen to police our behaviour and mannerisms as not being sufficiently ladylike.
Well, yes.
We are thinking for ourselves, the very horror, and must be controlled.

oops!

not quite sure what I read earlier!

sorry guys!

She can tell because you can always tell. It's instinctive - a safety mechanism.

I second contacting Sex Matters. The pool has a third space by sounds of it that this person could - and should - use.

Yet more misogynists who think women and girls whatever their age are not worth the merest consideration of privacy, dignity, comfort and safety, happily dancing to the but trans tune. Hoping the men will pat you on the head and call you a good girl, are you?

Really? Then so much has changed in the past 5 years. Every swimming pool I took my child to was a free for all with females changing fully naked altogether in a big room. Some had showers but were open.

these were pools though that were very well used for children’s swimming lessons.

But also, I used female only gyms in Sydney and they all had communal changing areas with showers that had doors with gaps at top and bottom. Still, there were women getting fully naked and changed there too.

Could be where you are in Australia.

@LibbyL92

are the changing rooms individual little cubicals? If so I don’t see the issue.

OP says the following.

My mum has been told that this person has been offered another changing room. It's a women's changing room. It's a little bit further away from the pool but it is for women and it's not used at this time of day. They had been using that since the original 'coming out of a cubicle in a towel' incident

Despite being offered a perfectly good changing room which is WOMEN ONLY, they have now decided to come back to the women only changing room which has other women in it.

Why do you think it's ok that despite there having been made a provision for this trans woman to use a private women only bathroom, they insist on using the shared one?

Why is their individual preference more important than that of the natal women at the pool?

Why would someone want to do something that is likely to make other people uncomfortable, when a perfectly reasonable and thoughtful compromise has been offered.

Is it perhaps because you can't opt out of male entitlement once you've had it before?

Yes. Its quite a thing here at the moment where women's behaviour (ie "noticing", "speaking about", "having a problem with", "being fearful of", "raising a complaint") is scolded as bad etiquette.

But being male in spaces for females where females are especially vulnerable is totally fine.

Funny how the ones crying "prude" when we point out a desire to not be made vulnerable to sexual assault are also the ones so keen to police our behaviour and mannerisms as not being sufficiently ladylike.

@Beebeebaby

it does not make her a paedophile or sex offender so why is it a safeguarding issue ?

Having a male body doesn't make anyone a paedophile or sex offender, but we still don't allow any men in single sex female spaces.

Single sex female spaces don't exist because all men are rapists or sex offenders, they exist because some are and we don't know which.

By your argument, we shouldn't have single sex female only spaces at all.

In fact, by your argument men, women and children should all share all spaces as, after all, having a penis doesn't make a man a paedophile or sex offender so it isn't fair to segregate people at all. That would mean all changing rooms and toilets should be unisex and shared.

Is that really what you think?

It’s been clearly explained earlier in the thread. Why not have a read?