Transwoman in the changing room at school pool

My local gym has communal changing rooms (male and female) with no cubicles. It's really not that unusual.

@wellhelloitsme yea I agree and sorry for not rereading the full facts before commenting

So with the full facts in mind, do you agree that the trans woman is unreasonable to use the single sex women's space and it would be right for them to use the private women's changing room they have been offered?

@wellhelloitsme apologies must've not seen or forgotten that but x

In the event of an attack (I too would like to see evidence) a transwoman is male bodied. They have:

More chance of fighting the attacker off

Less chance of rape

Less chance of a freeze trauma response from previous sexual assault

Less chance of an appease trauma response from a lifetime female social conditioning

Zero chance of becoming pregnant from rape.

And seriously, maddy68. If you're going to appropriate apartheid /racism against Irish & Black people (somewhat racist to do so) ....Well females are not the oppressors of males. Women ain't the "white people" in your example.

OP has been very clear about this:

The changing room has a communal area with only four cubicles so most women get changed in the communal area.

So let me get this straight, you think that OP's elderly mother and the other elderly women from her class should each arrive early enough that they have the chance to get changed into their swimming gear one at a time in the cubicles, then queue up in their towels after a class to use the cubicles available, because they're uncomfortable with the male bodied person insisting on using the single sex women's space? Just so that the male bodied person can use the space they want to?

You think that solution is the fairest and most sensible despite the alternative being them continuing to do what they've always done and be free to use the communal area, while the trans woman uses the private women's changing room they have been offered?

Really?

If you bothered to read the thread you would know that there are only 4 cubicles, and most women change in the communal part. This is not a mixed sex changing arrangement and women didn't expect a male to wander through as they were getting undressed. A male who had already been assigned their own space to change.

@wellhelloitsme I assume there are private cubicles like every swimming facility I've ever visited

I’d like to see evidence for stranger attacks. My understanding is that the stats come from attacks where normally the attacker was someone they knew

why would a random male sexually assault another male bodied person in a changing room. I’ve never heard of this happening

How is that relevant to OP's mum who is using a single sex women's changing room that now has a male bodied person using it, despite that person having a private women's changing room offered to them for their sole use?

Some women don't mind getting changed in front of men, others do have a problem with it or are banned from doing it due to their religious beliefs.

What are the women who do have an issue with it or are banned from it supposed to do? No longer use the pool? So a Muslim woman's belief that she cannot undress in the presence of men is less important than a trans woman's belief that they have the right to access single sex women's spaces?

Why are natal women's feelings less important than those of trans women who wish to use single sex women's spaces?

At first I used to also think this, perhaps we should just have single cubicles, perhaps we should just have mixed changing rooms, perhaps it should be me, as a woman who has to go and find a single changing space. Perhaps I’m being too ‘unkind’, as what is the problem, why am I so uncomfortable, perhaps I just have to ‘get over myself’.

And as a woman, perhaps the onus is on me to completely 100% justify why having a male in my changing room makes me feel uncomfortable. And then justify again why feeling uncomfortable does not mean I see every trans person as a threat. Justify why privacy to me is important. Keep on justifying… whilst at the same time being called a bigot or transphobic. Be attacked and have no safe space to even air my discomfort.

Now I think, what on earth has happened that a few men, and their female ‘allies’ are pushing to enter single women’s spaces so hard, are pushing women’s boundaries? When I stop being on the back foot, it really is incredible how tolerance for someone’s fantasy of being a woman trumps being a woman.

But this is not a mixed changing room (or shouldn't be, if males kept out) and many women do have a problem with them.

All our local swimming pools have mixed changing rooms and honestly don't see it as a problem.

Any soace ace that a trans woman uses by definition has a man in it.

You seem genuinely confused by what a “trans woman” is.

To be clear, you are arguing for the complete eradication of single-sex spaces?

You’re right, he may just be a normal man, not trans at all, who just gets off on the idea of being around women.

Why would that make it any better though?

They are male. That’s the issue.

If she still has male genitalia then yes she should be in an individual area. If post op, no one should be making assumptions about whether someone is trans or not anyway according to the EHRC.

Do you have any evidence that a male without a penis is less of a risk than a male with a penis?

Third spaces are not necessarily safer. They could still have men in them. So any third spaces would need to be stand alone single occupancy.

I don't think you will get much disagreement with that suggestion at all. As long as all males who feel they cannot use the male provision use those spaces.

If she still has male genitalia then yes she should be in an individual area. If post op, no one should be making assumptions about whether someone is trans or not anyway according to the EHRC.

third spaces
Third spaces are not necessarily safer. They could still have men in them. So any third spaces would need to be stand alone single occupancy.

Thanks for posting a link, Maddy68. But it’s not that relevant to assault in a UK changing room. The US research shows a large number of TW victims are prostitutes attacked by their male clients.That is sadly common for female prostitutes too. Prostitutes are attacked more often than other women, probably because men find it easier to get away with. Also, the USA is very much more violent than here. I’ve yet to read of a TW being attacked in a UK changing room.

Nope, the 'person' is a 'trans woman' not a 'woman'. Please don't confuse, deliberately or otherwise, sex with gender. It's disingenuous.

The thing is that it's not about transwomen's safety is it? Otherwise they would be happy with third spaces. As we have seen in this case, the NHS case and the Hampstead ponds they are not satisfied with using gender neutral safe options. They want in the women's.

I have my theories as to why that is but I would get deleted for posting them.

FYI Anti-British Racists

The Irish have always been able to differentiate between females and males.
From when women were Queens to when they were locked into Mother and Baby homes the Irish knew and still know. When men wore black skirts and covered their heads in church too they knew. When they faced racism in other countries they knew. Even today when the Irish politicians are voting to remove the word woman from the pregnacny legislation they know.

As for the "Blacks" which "Blacks"?
Who is claiming that the "Blacks"; the slaves, the colonised, the free, the uneducated, the educated, etc, did not know the difference between female and male?