Ben Cooper QC - Lawyer of the Week (in the Times)

Hearach is now defending TRA racism on the Allison Bailey’s spaghetti briefcase thread.

Don’t call me “ cavalier “ about my rights or any other women or girl.

You missed out the “ffs” part of my comment...

Being a woman in Scotland at the moment is far from being “ very privileged” or “ fortunate “ in many ways. Our rights are under siege at the present. The ceo of the Rape Crisis Centre here is a trans identifying man, we have a man in charge of the period poverty programme.
The rights of lesbians & straight women are being dismissed & dismantled by the SNP/ Greens in my country

My friend has been spat on in the street because her fringe show is about women & their bodies so don’t you dare call me immature.

You have derailed a thread about another subject & person completely with your comments.

Start your own thread if you feel so strongly about comments & actions made by the Baroness, this thread was might to be about a man who has stood up & used his talents to expose the homophobic behaviours of a group originally set up by the blood, sweat & tears of lesbians & gay men.
Take out your anger on those who allowed Stonewall to be over taken by those who are using it to screw over all women & girls.

You missed out the “ffs” part of my comment...

Being a woman in Scotland at the moment is far from being “ very privileged” or “ fortunate “ in many ways. Our rights are under siege at the present. The ceo of the Rape Crisis Centre here is a trans identifying man, we have a man in charge of the period poverty programme.
The rights of lesbians & straight women are being dismissed & dismantled by the SNP/ Greens in my country

My friend has been spat on in the street because her fringe show is about women & their bodies so don’t you dare call me immature.

You have derailed a thread about another subject & person completely with your comments.

Start your own thread if you feel so strongly about comments & actions made by the Baroness, this thread was might to be about a man who has stood up & used his talents to expose the homophobic behaviours of a group originally set up by the blood, sweat & tears of lesbians & gay men.
Take out your anger on those who allowed Stonewall to be over taken by those who are using it to screw over all women & girls.

"Oh do grow up" - such an immature thing to say when someone's human rights are at stake. You clearly live a very privileged, fortunate life to have such a cavalier attitude.

Oh do grow up ffs , and start your own thread slagging Emma Nicholson off if that‘s your thing, which it certainly seems to be!

Genuinely, Helleofabore if you know any lesbian couples or families and tell them their marriages are "degrading" and their families are neither "natural nor normal" and that there should be a different age of consent for gay and straight sex I can assure you they will think you very offensive.

There is nothing genuine about your posts. Except that you genuinely have a deep predjudice against any person who doesn’t think like you exactly. It must be genuinely exhausting to think you are the ambassador for LGB and yet, you still cannot accept alternative viewpoints from other LGB people.

I am quite sure that you have read lesbian posters on this board who support LGB Alliance. I am sure you have read lesbian posters who support the efforts of the Baroness at this time. And I am very certain that on this board you have been told by lesbian posters that they didn’t also agree with the word ‘marriage’ and why (you were right there on the thread!).

Your beliefs are not of what all LGB people believe. You continue to twist things to the most extreme interpretation and you are more often incorrect or just plain dishonest than genuine and correct.

You can keep telling me to go and speak to LGB people, and I will keep pointing out that you have history on FWR of ignoring the Lesbian and Bisexual posters who keep telling you that you are wrong and you don’t speak for them. And there have been plenty across the threads and you simply ignore them.

Ben Cooper QC defended the woman who founded the LGB Alliance - that's the group that invites this homophobe and misogynist to their events. It's all relevant.

Now hearache

Are you fully comfortable with 100% of what

Peter Tatchell

Jane Fae

Nancy Kelley

say 100% of the time?

Your pointless distractions are tedious and dishonest.

Yes or No?

I will answer these though:

Gay marriage has in now way "degraded" women or girls. If you agree with her on that you too are a bigot and a misogynist.

And you are looking at that through a lens of hindsight. How morally superior you must be!

To repeat, the concern was around the use of the term 'marriage'.

This was a concern in other countries as well. Not just here.

And just for the people reading this thread from this page and haven't read the rest:

And it was an issue for other LGB people, too.

And

The Baroness was actively involved in getting the act brought to parliament to strengthen same sex partnerships!

I mean.... hardly the act of a homophobe.

And I am really happy to keep on repeating this.

The Baroness is not say lesbian families are "unnatural" because they are created through IVF, adoption, or family breakup. She's saying they are unnatural because she quite clearly believes they are a perversion. Did she ever refer to straight families that have been created through IVF or adoption as neither "normal or natural"? No, she picked on lesbian families because she is a homophobic bigot despite the fact that they are created in exactly the same way.

And you know this how? How do you know what she meant? Have you read anything else about it?

As for your point "Is that arrangement a 'greater' outcome for that child, than a child having some kind of knowledge and contact with their biological father as well?"

Once again you are showing your non-expertise on LGBT issues.

Plenty of lesbian families are created thanks to sperm bank donors who do not want to know the child. Others are created through adoption because the father is no in a position to raise the child e.g. he could be in a murderer in prison. Some are created through family breakup - and yes usually these kids do know their fathers.

And once again, you have failed to engage with the substance of my post.

Your post is ALL about the parents. When have you ever stopped to consider the child and listened to children of these families as they get older and discuss their feelings? Particularly of donor children. Particularly children who have no knowledge of both their biological parents.

You discuss adoption and other family arrangements, in adoption and fostering, these are children who have already been born and need specific support. But they also have been telling society too about their needs.

Children born with donor egg or sperm have been created specifically for the need of the parents. Do you understand that? Have you ever thought about their needs? This is a discussion topic regularly discussed on this board, I encourage you to read up about it. There are also some very experienced adoptive parents who have quite interesting views and experiences to report.

But is sum, lesbians families do not necessarily need a sperm donor in their lives. You betray a very heteronormative, misogynistic and anti-lesbian attitude if you think they cannot manage superbly without him. Children require love, not men in their lives.

No, hearache you are not even trying to understand anything I posted. All you do is double down and throw out the same old tropism answers. Which is your usual method of non-engagement.

Children are telling society, as children and as adults, that they want to know about at the very least, if not have a relationship with both their biological parents. Their voices are quite easy to find. They have founded support groups and they talk at conferences.

You are determined to diminish and minimise their rights and their experiences to prioritise the parents. The groups are growing and their voice is too.

I have said there are ways to make this work for both parents and children and I am sure that many families seek to do this now. I am not confident at all that even 15 years ago, that many families sought to listen to other children's experiences with the intent of helping their own family. But many of them are now.

Children require love, not men in their lives.

For the last time, children at some stage in their lives, require at least knowledge of a parent who contributed to their birth, if not having a relationship.

Your 'mantra' like reply is completely ignoring a child centred approach.

I genuinely do think you should get to know more lesbian and gay families. That would be an eye opener for you. I would say though that if you call any of them "neither normal or natural" then they will be very offended.

I genuinely do think you need to stop trying to portray yourself as holding the universal opinions of all LGB people. And I genuinely do think you are again false in your view that I don't know lesbian and gay families.

Do you know any LGB? Because you certainly don't seem to understand that some LGB people have different views that are just has valid as yours. Plus some of those LGB people actually have feminist view points as well... something you have proven you know nothing about.

And your interpretation of 'normal or natural' stated decades ago is as always, only the bad faith interpretation. Plus it also allows no room for development on her part.

So, I am not going to respond any more to your posts about the Baroness, except to post references to full posts where I have shown your posts to be absolutist, completely polarised in thinking, completely selective, disingenuous and dishonest.

I will answer these though:

Gay marriage has in now way "degraded" women or girls. If you agree with her on that you too are a bigot and a misogynist.

And you are looking at that through a lens of hindsight. How morally superior you must be!

To repeat, the concern was around the use of the term 'marriage'.

This was a concern in other countries as well. Not just here.

And just for the people reading this thread from this page and haven't read the rest:

And it was an issue for other LGB people, too.

And

The Baroness was actively involved in getting the act brought to parliament to strengthen same sex partnerships!

I mean.... hardly the act of a homophobe.

And I am really happy to keep on repeating this.

The Baroness is not say lesbian families are "unnatural" because they are created through IVF, adoption, or family breakup. She's saying they are unnatural because she quite clearly believes they are a perversion. Did she ever refer to straight families that have been created through IVF or adoption as neither "normal or natural"? No, she picked on lesbian families because she is a homophobic bigot despite the fact that they are created in exactly the same way.

And you know this how? How do you know what she meant? Have you read anything else about it?

As for your point "Is that arrangement a 'greater' outcome for that child, than a child having some kind of knowledge and contact with their biological father as well?"

Once again you are showing your non-expertise on LGBT issues.

Plenty of lesbian families are created thanks to sperm bank donors who do not want to know the child. Others are created through adoption because the father is no in a position to raise the child e.g. he could be in a murderer in prison. Some are created through family breakup - and yes usually these kids do know their fathers.

And once again, you have failed to engage with the substance of my post.

Your post is ALL about the parents. When have you ever stopped to consider the child and listened to children of these families as they get older and discuss their feelings? Particularly of donor children. Particularly children who have no knowledge of both their biological parents.

You discuss adoption and other family arrangements, in adoption and fostering, these are children who have already been born and need specific support. But they also have been telling society too about their needs.

Children born with donor egg or sperm have been created specifically for the need of the parents. Do you understand that? Have you ever thought about their needs? This is a discussion topic regularly discussed on this board, I encourage you to read up about it. There are also some very experienced adoptive parents who have quite interesting views and experiences to report.

But is sum, lesbians families do not necessarily need a sperm donor in their lives. You betray a very heteronormative, misogynistic and anti-lesbian attitude if you think they cannot manage superbly without him. Children require love, not men in their lives.

No, hearache you are not even trying to understand anything I posted. All you do is double down and throw out the same old tropism answers. Which is your usual method of non-engagement.

Children are telling society, as children and as adults, that they want to know about at the very least, if not have a relationship with both their biological parents. Their voices are quite easy to find. They have founded support groups and they talk at conferences.

You are determined to diminish and minimise their rights and their experiences to prioritise the parents. The groups are growing and their voice is too.

I have said there are ways to make this work for both parents and children and I am sure that many families seek to do this now. I am not confident at all that even 15 years ago, that many families sought to listen to other children's experiences with the intent of helping their own family. But many of them are now.

Children require love, not men in their lives.

For the last time, children at some stage in their lives, require at least knowledge of a parent who contributed to their birth, if not having a relationship.

Your 'mantra' like reply is completely ignoring a child centred approach.

I genuinely do think you should get to know more lesbian and gay families. That would be an eye opener for you. I would say though that if you call any of them "neither normal or natural" then they will be very offended.

I genuinely do think you need to stop trying to portray yourself as holding the universal opinions of all LGB people. And I genuinely do think you are again false in your view that I don't know lesbian and gay families.

Do you know any LGB? Because you certainly don't seem to understand that some LGB people have different views that are just has valid as yours. Plus some of those LGB people actually have feminist view points as well... something you have proven you know nothing about.

And your interpretation of 'normal or natural' stated decades ago is as always, only the bad faith interpretation. Plus it also allows no room for development on her part.

So, I am not going to respond any more to your posts about the Baroness, except to post references to full posts where I have shown your posts to be absolutist, completely polarised in thinking, completely selective, disingenuous and dishonest.

Typo. Forgot to add people.

Do you know any LGB people?

ie. You seem to only know LGB people who are in a bubble with you if you cannot acknowledge that no all LGB people think the same. I know some who do think like you and I know some who don’t. Strange that you portray yourself as knowing what all LGB people think, and don’t allow any nuanced thinking at all.

Almost like a zealot rather than a person who is in constant search for knowledge and truth.