Ben Cooper QC - Lawyer of the Week (in the Times)

1 - "let us also discuss the other side of that particular coin hearache , surrogacy."

You've misunderstood what the Government did. It provided lesbians and single women who are fertile with free IVF. Nothing about surrogacy. These women are trying to get pregnant themselves.

2 - "the details of just how many females?"

Couldn't tell you. You're welcome to email or do an FOI to the Home Office if it matters that much. What I would say is it'll be more than the 0 (zero) the LGB Alliance you admire brought into the country.

3 - "Could you please help us by telling us exactly how changing a birth certificate to male helps"

There was an excellent piece in Holyrood mag the other day explaining why, here's a snippet:

"One of my friends had to marry as a man and now her marriage certificate doesn’t match her other documents."

www.holyrood.com/comment/view,comment-its-beyond-time-to-reform-the-gender-recognition-act

4 - "Your examples are very male / man centric hearache."

So I gave examples of how their campaigning benefited lesbians, gay men, a trans man (I could equally have just said trans women or trans people in general but I know the existence of trans women does trigger GC people) and bisexuals (gender neutral).

So 1 for women, 1 gender neutral and another 2 for men. Glad to see you recognise that trans men are men!

Yes, let's have another look at the end result of Stonewall's advice.

Social Change UK created Bloody Brilliant on behalf of NHS Wales and the Welsh Government. And Bloody Brilliant have just created this little gem of dehumanisation for females.

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11091543/NHS-advice-periods-goes-woke-Advice-refers-people-bleed.html

I can assure hearache and others, that females actually don't want to be described as anyone 'who bleeds'. This type of language has been advised by Stonewall. And here we are .... being described by an organisation engaged by the NHS Wales and the Welsh Government as people who bleed.

And yet .... males 'bleed' too. And if they 'bleed' from their genitals.... or their anuses, they really should be seeking medical assistance immediately.

At least when the government produces resources for people who 'ejaculate' there will be absolutely no ambiguity as to who that is aimed at. If those ejaculators know that it applies to them of course. Because that is whole point. Dehumanisation does not lead to understanding and diminishes the success of the communications effort.

No harm done here though, eh? Just to females. So, still well worth celebrating as a 'Stonewall' win! Fabulous!

Just to be clear, the belief that stonewall is homophobic, detrimental to women, and severely detrimental to lesbians is now legally protected. In order to be so, it has to meet this criteria:

(i) The belief must be genuinely held.

(ii) It must be a belief and not an opinion or viewpoint based on the present state of information available.

(iii) It must be a belief as to a weighty and substantial aspect of human life and behaviour.

(iv) It must attain a certain level of cogency, seriousness, cohesion and importance.

(v) It must be worthy of respect in a democratic society, be not incompatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others.

The judge found it cogent, serious, cohesive, important, and worthy of respect.

Anyone finding this a win for Stonewall should really examine whether their hopeless lack of credibility is making things worse for that charity.

Because, with friends like those...

And we can continue to post this

twitter.com/moleatthedoor/status/1555230013384966147?s=21&t=50OpIpUhtBMMsthgxdKWLw

And say Ben Cooper is a God!

Yes I would certainly recommend reading the live threads!

And see that the chorus chiming in to celebrate have been deleted by MNHQ (obviously not following the guidelines of posting ). So not much support for Hearache.

C) they are keeping this thread up on the top, anyone who comes here will be able to read this and the other threads about allison's case and see which side requires support dogs and mothers and crashing into bins and receiving emails at 3am and social media experts not knowing how Twitter works and all the other absolutely hilarious things along with the serious and harmful stuff. Keep going earache, please, you are doing us all a favour.

I actually hold out hope that they will come to realise that their posts come across as misogynistic though and they might start engaging.

A) they don't care that they come across as misogynistic

B) they aren't capable of engaging with the substance of the arguments on this board

Yes Eresh. hearache’s glibness only continues to show the lack of self awareness of the misogyny we can see in many of their posts. What they think is a clever rebuttal generally results in failed gotcha attempts, or straight out examples of misogyny or just hatred, anger and derision towards women who disagree with them. It has been this since the first thread.

I actually hold out hope that they will come to realise that their posts come across as misogynistic though and they might start engaging.

Or are you going to continue to celebrate this as a ‘win’ on a feminist board which centres female people, whatever their identity.

Yes, I imagine they are.

Yes, good point.

Not necessarily. Giving credit to the white male junior rather than the black female lead could be racism rather than sexism. Or it might be both.

By the way, we can also start listing the campaigns that Stonewall have been involved in that are actually harmful for females. Would you like us to counter your examples hearache?

Should we start with campaigning for males to be accommodated in female prisons?

We can post some examples of published assaults and other harms to females resulting from
that?

A fall in the quality of treatment for under 18’s due to affirming only being pushed. We have lots of links for the harms for that.

And what about that tweet celebrating transitioning of a toddler the other day? Yes, that must be a proud moment for you hearache.

Shall we also then dip into the campaigning to remove things like ‘sex by deception’ that Stonewall is actively engaged in? I cannot imagine anyone celebrating removal of that protection for anyone… but then maybe some people would if they cannot understand the huge issue sexual assault and sex abuse is for females. Why would anyone want to add another way to remove protection from females like that? I am sure you understand just what ‘sex by deception’ means hearache, do you want to celebrate that campaign too?

And that is not even touching on the campaigning for males to be included in female sport, in female representational roles, in any role specified for females (including rape centres), and the inclusion of males into female single sex spaces.

Happy to link readers up on what other campaigns Stonewall has been heavily invested in or solely responsible for, for balance, that have been directly harmful to females.

I mean, this is a feminist board and specifically analysing the topics of Sex and Gender and the effects on females. We have loads of examples to counter your ‘wins’ that you listed.

So, you are referring to Bella? A transitioned male.

Any female featured there? Perhaps I missed it. I skimmed through

Any statistics to show that an even balance of males and females were flown out of Afghanistan? or any solid and valid reason why it was not balanced equally?

Or are you going to continue to celebrate this as a ‘win’ on a feminist board which centres female people, whatever their identity.

Honestly, do you actually understand how misogynistic and focused on excluding females your posts end up being shown to be?

No wonder you usually stick to single sentences.

The lesbian who has access to free IVF on the NHS because Stonewall campaigned on the issue won.

Yes… let us also discuss the other side of that particular coin hearache , surrogacy. The exploitation of women’s bodies to produce children to order for others… are you sure you want to be celebrating surrogacy on a feminist board? I know you are not a feminist but you would have to be a fool to think celebrating surrogacy here in your glib fashion is acceptable.

The gay man brought to safety from Afghanistan to Britain because Stonewall sent their details to the Government won

and the details of just how many females? Did you find those statistics ? I mean, it is great to hear so many people were given safety…. This is a feminist board hearache, how many were female? And please don’t glibly do a sleight of hand deflection to ‘women’ again here.

The trans man in Scotland who will soon be able to change his birth cert through a statutory declaration thanks to Stonewall's lobbying won.

Could you please help us by telling us exactly how changing a birth certificate to male helps a transitioned female when their NHS details are changed (as they are currently) and this female is taken unconscious to A& E? Do you understand that there are well known cases, one where a transioned female died, where this change of sex marker has resulted in the wrong treatment ? Or not diagnosing the right health issue?

How is that a win for trans health?

The bisexual who can serve openly in the Armed Forces thanks to Stonewall's campaigning won.

Yes. Since 2000! Before the change in focus in 2015. And you can thank people who are now involved in LGB Alliance for that too. Those people who were part of Stonewall at the time. And a well celebrated win too!

Your examples are very male / man centric hearache. On a feminist board. Your misogynistic thinking really is not apparent to you is it?

You don’t even notice how misogynistic your posts are in your determination to ‘gotcha’ women who disagree with you. Are you this misogynistic in real life? Or is this just for our benefit?

Another great example of your intention here on FWR, if people weren’t already noticing it.

But yes. We hear you! Stonewall is great for males! We know this!

Mmm... Ben. Sigh. Is there a recording of his voice somewhere? Tell me there is.

@TheLoneRager "Don't mind my cynicism but..." I don't mind your cynicism one little bit but if memory serves they were pushing for gay adoption at the time and to be fair I think SW has tried to throw the odd bone in the direction of the women from time to time - as long as it cost them nothing. (prior to the 2015 capture). The lesbians I knew 30 years ago thought reform of the SS and family court for transparency and to protect women from homophobic partners and judges should be a higher campaigning priority but I guess that was just a little too tricky...

The lesbian who has access to free IVF on the NHS because Stonewall campaigned on the issue won.

Don't mind my cynicism but the reason Stonewall supported free IVF for lesbians is for Trojan horse purposes. Now they can demand free IVF for gay men. Except gay men need a woman to be the recipient of the IVF. They just want to increase access to surrogacy aka exploitation of women as breeders.

Who knew? Autocorrect can be your friend!

So true, Stonewall's victory was a great day for women and lesbians - most of whom are big supporters of LGBT rights!

Well that particular boat is sinking faster every week...

I'm not quite sure what it says about Earache that they are so enthusiastic about supporting the misogynistic and homophobic outfit Stonewall, but whatever rocks your boat I suppose...

Women and lesbians didn’t lose anything, Stonewall have lost a hell of a lot of public support & good will .

You wanted to lose to Stonewall??

Jog on @Hearach15 - your "win" was actually a massive loss 😂
Women & lesbians got the win we wanted 👍