Ben Cooper QC - Lawyer of the Week (in the Times)

Healthcare records need to record sex. Gender identity where necessary but sex is essential.

Yes. And 'preferred name' - this isn't just an issue for trans people. MIL was always known by her middle name - until in the final stages of her life the NHS seemed incapable of retaining this information. Really not helpful when treating someone suffering from confusion.

There is a reasonable chance that countries with a something like a public health lung cancer screening/case finding programme may find themselves considering different intervals to recognise the differences between the sexes and most common types of lung cancer.

Caroline Criado Perez's work is highlighting relevant sex differences in health care and we're starting to see those turn up more in evidence based diagnostics and treatment now that sex differences are recognised for their critical importance.

Healthcare records need to record sex. Gender identity where necessary but sex is essential.

Trans people's medical records should accurately record their medical needs.

Everyone's medical records should accurately reflect their needs.
So sure, a trans person's should include their sex plus relevant info on medical and surgical modifications.

Yes purgatory and imagine, just imagine if Stonewall campaigned for the ability for the NHS to keep the original sex marker and add a gender marker along with adding the new name!

Wow! Wouldn’t that be fucking brilliant!

A complete history of the health care and needs of that patient! And yet….

Conversely, there is no point trans men who have had hysterectomy being invited for smear tests. That's a waste of the NHS's time.

As you seem to be so confused about female anatomy that you think having one's uterus removed means one doesn't need cervical smears, this is maybe not the board for you to be opining on. It's a dangerous oversimplication.

We can still develop cervical cancer after hysterectomy.

Firstly, because there are different types of hysterectomy, and what is known as a partial hysterectomy does not remove the cervix.

Secondly, female people who have had a total hysterectomy, which does remove the cervix, because of cervical cancer are explicitly advised to continue having smears for the next two decades to monitor for the presence of cancerous cells.

Is this a rinse and repeat?

You either did not even read the original post or you cannot answer.

Nope.

Feminism centres the needs for females due to their opression by males.

You can try to force team feminism and trans rights but you have shown yourself to be absolutely unable to centre females whilst posting on a feminism board. So, I am very confident that you don’t actually have a depth of understanding about feminism, and the lived reality of females.

So I can pretty safely say that the only similarity between feminism and trans rights is that they are ‘movements’ involving people.

Because, for reader’s benefit as you have had this explained many times now, the current attempt for extreme trans activists to prioritise males in the rights and protections set up for females to counter the negative discrimination experienced by them due to their sexed body is harmful to females.

YOU can tell the world you think there is a lot in common, but ‘freedom’ of trans people seems to mean harm to females and ‘bodily autonomy’ being activated for by extreme trans rights includes the medicalisation of children under affirming only treatment. And bodily autonomy for females also means the right to have single sex spaces and not have their bodies utilised for someone else’s ideological needs.

The issue is - how do trans people best get the healthcare that suits their unique needs?

So I support trans women being called checked for breast cancer bc of their elevated risk and I don't think trans men without wombs should be called for smear tests.

Their medical records should reflect their individual circumstances.

Again, you are being deliberately obtuse. And you are not addressing the issue. These are connected issues.

we know that trans people change their sex marker. We know this. It is absolutely connected to them also changing all sex markers on their official ID.

Your continued twisting and avoiding the point is very clear.

Ah but here comes the rub

Transwomen should not face discrimination does not mean that they - unless evidenced as fair and necessary - deserve access to the elements of society used to protect women

It is not In my opinion discrimination to acknowledge that they are male bodied people and where male and female distinctions are needed they should be considered male

To reframe that as discrimination is showing great male privilege

"freedom from discrimination" - so true, trans people should not be discriminated against.

I think freedom from discrimination and merit based asseasmet is feminism not freedom absolute which seems to be a TRA position

I think feminism and trans rights have a lot in common. At the end of the day both are movements that seek bodily autonomy and seek freedom for the individual.

Trans people's medical records should accurately record their medical needs.

So for example, trans women who have taken oestrogen have a much higher chance of breast cancer than cisgender men. However, they obviously still need to be checked for prostate cancer.

Conversely, there is no point trans men who have had hysterectomy being invited for smear tests. That's a waste of the NHS's time.

Better trans healthcare is a must and it a separate issue to how they update their birth certs.

no matter how masculine a person is they can - and often do - still have a uterus.

Only if they're female. You're absolutely right, 'gender' should be absolutely irrelevant to medical treatment. So medical records should include sex accurately. Changing it does trans people a serious disservice - this is not a matter for levity.

Omg and football, only ever discussed in chambers, and Ben's wren and it was nearly Christmas. One day when I have a long time spare, I will reread those threads. Hopefully when that time comes this shit show will be over, women will have ironclad rights to single sex spaces and equity might even be a thing, nearly.

Sorry, a long day.

For someone not a feminist, you have no problems posting thoughtless anti-feminist posts on this thread.

No. hearache. They didn’t bring across an even balance of females and males. When females are just as, maybe even more, at risk.

Do you not actually understand that you are completely trying to ignore the point, your posts are male centred on a feminist board and you seem unable to frame your posts to reflect where you are posting?

Again, a twist away.

you cannot answer anything outside your narrow understanding, it seems.

No hearache. The sex markers can be changed on NhS records as they can on ID .

You can go on about includive language all you want. It doesn’t matter when the patient is unable to communicate and their records are the wrong sex.

For someone not a feminist, you have no problems posting thoughtless posts on this thread.

"That there seems no evidence that there was an equal balance between females and male. Females were NOT served well by Stonewall here, quite the opposite it seems."

Ah, I get it. Your problem with Stonewall is not the work they do but that they do not enough of it. This is a valid criticism. You should set up a direct debit so they can do expand their excellent operation.

For someone who admits "I am not an expert on LGBT matters" you sure seem to think you're an expert on homophobia.

This is why trans inclusive language in healthcare is so important. Medical staff should be aware that trans men can get pregnant and no matter how masculine a person is they can - and often do - still have a uterus.

And this is also interesting and I believe an effect of the recent court cases:

twitter.com/BTPRams/status/1556293257612632071?s=20&t=8BQ4Z_BtSN3kHLy09tpI_A

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4607722-british-transport-police-announce-they-will-discriminate-against-people-with-gender-critical-views?reply=119121243

Yesterday, the person in charge of tweeting from the British Transport Police posting this little gem:

We love to see it 👏 Inclusion isn’t political, and we’ll always celebrate being as diverse as the communities we protect. If you’re offended by this, please don’t apply to work for us - thanks 😌

Today they have replied that they are kind of shocked that their 'boss' needed to mention this in reply:

Important to realise that our BTP teams attend all different engagement events throughout the year, cultural festivals, village fetes and pride events.

We will continue to engage with all communities to make the railway safe

.... No.... nothing to see here! Stonewall training over a decade with this force, they were a Top 100 employer at one stage, and the climate of arrogance that seems to have pervaded these organisation's social media team, propping each other up to post more and more arrogant and thoughtless content.

Those ultimately in charge of the organisations are definitely watching these court cases.

But, hey, feel free to deny that Stonewall still 'won' and that there is no negative effect from this court case. Because, we will just keep pointing out each new push back that was inconceivable to see even just 12 months ago.

IsItShining

Ah... Thanks. I appreciate that correction.

There was the case of the transitioned female who would not disclose their sex to their specialist doctors and nearly died because the doctors were viewing the results in the frame of them being male, too.