Ben Cooper QC - Lawyer of the Week (in the Times)

And we have cycled around again. You are very dangerous to trans people hearache.

The fact you are posting this shows your evangelical zeal. Please go and ask each and every one of your trans friends what sex they are? I dare you.

The trans people I know don’t lie about their sex. The trans people we have come on this board and talk to on social media don’t lie about their sex.

I don't think hearache is in an echo chamber, or believes any of the drivel they spout, or thinks Stonewall have won anything, or has any kind of sensible internal monologue to explain transgenderism, or is trying to convince anyone of anything or defend something, or someone, or anyone.

They just like the aggro.

I know datun.

I have said before that I ceased talking to hearache from the first thread.

Every post allows hearache’s true motives to be revealed by themselves.

I did think maybe the dissonance in their posts would be a crescendo in their head. But as you say, they just like the aggro.

I don't think hearache is in an echo chamber, or believes any of the drivel they spout, or thinks Stonewall have won anything, or has any kind of sensible internal monologue to explain transgenderism, or is trying to convince anyone of anything or defend something, or someone, or anyone.

They just like the aggro.

This is comedy gold.

"Male" and "female" are not gender terms. Sex =/= gender, remember.

How do you feel about female transitioners being automatically excluded from screening programmes for cervical cancer, even if they still have a cervix?

My niece is female despite identifying as a transman. It would be idiotic to treat any relevant medical conditions as if they were occurring in a male body.

Be that kind of idiot if you must but do not berate others for having more common sense.

"you believe you can take the moral high ground"

I'm happy to take the moral high ground over someone who misgenders trans men by calling them 'female'.

Giving trans people some basic dignity through the use of appropriate language cost absolutely nothing.

But they really are female, as in born female, having female rather than male reproductive systems and taking the female role of gestation in sexual reproduction.

"I have not misgendere anyone".

Absolute nonsense, you keep referring to trans men as 'females'. That is misgendering. And you've claimed before that you're "well read" when it comes to trans issues!?

You let the cat out of the bag when you said you were a non expert on LGBT issues. If you don't even know what misgendering is then need to go back and learn some basics.

Freddy can be as blokey as Freddie wants but Freddie is a female person. Using words to mean their opposite doesn’t prove anything.

No, Freddy's a bloke.

embarassing🎯

I may be wrong but I detect a case of Frankfurt's On Bullshit when it comes to the plausible explanations for some posters and whether they're engaging in good faith and have any care for the topic on hand.

It is impossible for someone to lie unless he thinks he knows the truth. Producing bullshit requires no such conviction. A person who lies is thereby responding to the truth, and he is to that extent respectful of it. When an honest man speaks, he says only what he believes to be true; and for the liar, it is correspondingly indispensable that he considers his statements to be false. For the bullshitter, however, all these bets are off: he is neither on the side of the true nor on the side of the false. His eye is not on the facts at all, as the eyes of the honest man and of the liar are, except insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in getting away with what he says. He does not care whether the things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks them out, or makes them up, to suit his purpose.

www2.csudh.edu/ccauthen/576f12/frankfurt__harry_-_on_bullshit.pdf

What has been apparent from the very first thread hearache is your deep prejudice against people on Mumsnet. Despite some of us telling you time and time again that YES WE KNOW and LOVE trans people. Some of us have young trans people in our daily life. Hence, we KNOW a great deal about them and their needs and their lives.

Are you so arrogantly pompous that you just continue to ignore this, and to remain in your echo chamber where you believe you can take the moral high ground while gleefully thinking you have something over posters? Or are you going to start acknowledging that maybe you twist and distract and dismiss because you really do have a superficial knowledge on young trans people and females.

All you do on these threads is continue to repetitiously display a lack of ability to discuss debate. Your posts don’t engage and present relevant information. It does fuck all for the people you preport to support. It frankly presents the extremist view of their needs and your tactics echo those extreme activists on other platforms.

And just today it fully dawned on me just what we've done to the most vulnerable adolescents in our society.

I've thought of the young people I know that have actually had the hormones and the surgery (out of the personal experience of about 10 who identify as trans who are/were my children's friends) and these were the most traumatized (2 girls 1 boy)

We've given our children the wrong way to help them cope with difficulties of their autism and trauma, and I feel ashamed that I didn't realise the full implications of this movement until about 3 years ago, and I'm ashamed to be part of a society that thought this entirely acceptable.

And I'm also ashamed of not being brave enough to talk about it publicly, like many other women (and some notable men) have done. I'll try and do better.

Thanks for that link @Hearach15, very illuminating 'erratum' section:

'Upon request, the authors reanalyzed the data to compare outcomes between individuals diagnosed with gender incongruence who had received gender-affirming surgical treatments and those diagnosed with gender incongruence who had not. While this comparison was performed retrospectively and was not part of the original research question given that several other factors may differ between the groups, the results demonstrated no advantage of surgery in relation to subsequent mood or anxiety disorder-related health care visits or prescriptions or hospitalizations following suicide attempts in that comparison'.

Amazing how each one of these 'studies' don't actually show what you think they show, if properly analyzed.

It's a bit like your interpretation of the law, or the implications of recent judgments for Stonewall et al.

You just keep denying it's true, and think your denial of it is going to matter, very odd

An you are trying to distract people from the fact that female people of all genders need clear language for them and their carers, families etc. PLUS their sex markers clear on their medical records.

AND you posted a study as an appeal to authority that was retracting their conclusions.

You have continually posted misogynistic posts on a feminist board, and I don’t even believe you read anything posted properly, nor do you do anything but post anything that seems to quickly match a Google search as a gotcha that frequently backfires on you.

I am quite well read on young trans people which you have proven on several times to have no knowledge on bar the superficial. Because you have little idea who the majority of young people are who declare trans identities. You have proven that also on past threads.

I, as have others on this board, have loved ones who are trans. We have told you this. YOU choose to ignore what we say.

I have not misgendere anyone. I have used their appropriate SEX. Especially in regards to discussing their health needs and their needs as females. On a feminist board.

Again you attempt to distract from the fact you are posting harmful misinformation, misogynistic posts, and fucking studies that even the researchers admitted were NOT PROVING ANYTHING CONCLUSIVE! Certainly you have posted it before as a ‘gotcha’ and had this explained.

Which bit the one about your medical marker saying 'female but manly'?

Because you have posted a link to a female that gave birth.

Did you mean to post something that completely proves my point?

And you can’t have Arnie in Junior.

Can you find an example of a non- transman man who has conceived and given birth?

cheers.

What a pity they can't.

The history of the human race would be very different.

What a shame they can't though

"His mother used to tell him “I loved being pregnant. Everybody should experience it – especially men.”" 😘

FM is a female transitioner. A "transman".

Not male. You doughnut.

I see what you did there

Simply not true!

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/20/the-dad-who-gave-birth-pregnant-trans-freddy-mcconnell