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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Scotland. We need your help.

32 replies

Cismyfatarse · 03/08/2022 09:34

The Sandyford (equivalent of the Tavistock) is still alive and kicking, dispensing puberty blockers and cutting off girls' breasts. The Scottish government, plus Labour and Lib Dems are pushing through self ID. Ribbons are a hate crime.

We have devolved NHS and Police. Sturgeon and Harvie are desperate to be more 'progressive' and show how different they are.

We need help. Letters. Twitter campaigns. Speakers. We have amazing groups including For Women Scotland but we need everyone to help us stop this nonsense. Today, for example:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/psychiatrist-pleads-to-shut-down-sandyford-gender-clinic-in-glasgow-stzgzc5tk?shareToken=ae9fbd10d91f4a64ae843edf4179013f.

David Bell pleading for the Sandyford to be shut down.

Not sure what specifically we need but others will, I hope, advise.

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radfemFighter · 04/08/2022 17:42

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achillestoes · 04/08/2022 11:53

Truss is positioning to dilute devolution, if that helps.

JanieAllen · 04/08/2022 11:51

I think the middle class suffragettes probably had more pressure about propriety etc... and there were lots of working class suffragettes who came from union organising. Jessie Stephens worked as a maid and when she was sent out on errands by her madam would pour acid into post boxes....

applesandpears33 · 04/08/2022 11:44

I agree. I recall that many of the suffragettes were from middle class backgrounds where they didn't have the same social pressures on them.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 04/08/2022 09:18

applesandpears33 · 04/08/2022 08:33

The effect of the Marion Miller case has been chilling - many women are afraid to say what they think on this subject and are now silent. I think if a party were to support women they would be surprised at the amount of votes they could gain.

In a recent piece, James Kirkup finished with these observations:

Allison Bailey’s willingness to go against senior members of her own small and powerful profession over such a contentious issue, required extraordinary courage. The same can and should be said of Maya Forstater, who was also operating as a contractor in a small, well-connected and politicised sector.

Both of those women might have had quieter, easier lives if they’d folded and let their cases drop. Knowing a bit about the risks and pressures involved, I’m pretty sure that if I found myself in a comparable situation, I’d give up and back down. I am not brave: I understand the silence of all those prominent people I know who have stayed quiet on this issue over the years.

But Allison Bailey is brave. So is Maya Forstater. Everyone is better off for their bravery. I hope those who remained silent while those women fought on will now find their own voices.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-bravery-of-allison-bailey

It can't continue to fall to women to do this. Particularly as we're likely to be vulnerable by virtue of families (the target of action by particular figures are Ceri Black and Marion Millar who both have young children) and fewer financial and other resources and the plausibility of being in occupations/jobs with little employment protection.

applesandpears33 · 04/08/2022 08:33

The effect of the Marion Miller case has been chilling - many women are afraid to say what they think on this subject and are now silent. I think if a party were to support women they would be surprised at the amount of votes they could gain.

Cookingutensil · 04/08/2022 00:16

Jesus, I was about to say voting Tory is our only hope and I'm not a natural Tory. Desperate indeed. Lots of votes for the taking if anyone is interested in what women think...

BetsyM00 · 03/08/2022 23:12

I’m in England but want to help. Can I do this consultation?

Yes! They only ask for a name and email address.

Mochudubh · 03/08/2022 22:30

Yeah, Lorna whatserface, the Canadian, is totally TWAW. So, I think is Patrick Harvie.

GibbonsGoatsGibbons · 03/08/2022 22:15

Mochudubh · 03/08/2022 21:27

Same here, would the Green in question have the initials MC?

No - so probably actual Green Party policy!

To be fair my Labour MSP puts in the effort of replying to tell me I'm a bigot too - her reply to my heartfelt email about the six words amendment reduced me to actual helpless frustrated tears.

Mochudubh · 03/08/2022 21:27

GibbonsGoatsGibbons · 03/08/2022 10:23

My MSPs don't reply any more other than the Green who occasionally writes to tell me I'm a bigot 🤷‍♀️

It's absolutely desperate here

Same here, would the Green in question have the initials MC?

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 03/08/2022 21:21

JanieAllen · 03/08/2022 18:31

just had For Women Scotland's newsletter they have a series of actions

Sign up at their website

Hello, and thanks for reading our newsletter.
Consultation on review of Violence Against Women and Girls Services
I know we are probably all suffering from consultation fatigue but this one is really important and will take just a couple of minutes to do. As you can see from the first question the term "woman" has been redefined to include any man who declares himself to be a woman. After our judicial review win this just should not be happening!
Please respond in the box under question one that their definition of woman is unlawful and it should be changed to the biological definition "a female of any age" as defined in the Equality Act. As per the decision in For Women Scotland v LA and Scottish Ministers, "gender reassignment" is a separate protected characteristic from "sex" and the two should not be confused or conflated. The court ruled that provisions in favour of women must, by definition, exclude those who are biologically male, and that the Scottish Government cannot amend the definition of "woman".

Please also add a couple of short sentences on why it is important to you that women's services remain single-sex. For example, many women will opt to self-exclude themselves if there are male staff or service-users (regardless of how they identify), or worry if they can get help at all if a service has taken such an ideological stance, particularly if they have suffered abuse from a man who identifies as a woman. Some women (who may not identify as such) will be excluded entirely.
You don't have to answer the rest of the questions if you don't want to and you can tick the box for your response to be published anonymously, or not published at all, if you prefer.
Our response can be seen here.
Closing date for submissions is 15 August 2022.
Click to fill in the consultation on Violence Against Women & Girls Services
Are you interested in joining a local women's rights group?
If you want to get more involved in activism or are looking for support or advice please join in with one of the Scottish Feminist Network's local groups. We hear rumours there might be cake too!

Their website is here and they are also on Twitter here. Please drop them a message about joining one of the groups:
Aberdeen (City and Shire)
Argyll
Ayrshire
Borders
Clackmannanshire
Dundee and Angus
Dumbarton and Helensburgh
Dumfries and Galloway
Edinburgh and Lothians
Falkirk
Fife
Glasgow
Highlands and Islands
Inverclyde
Lanarkshire North
Lanarkshire South
Moray
Perth
Renfrewshire
Stirling
If your area isn't listed you can join the nearest group or they will try and build a new group.
It's getting near crisis point now with the Gender Recognition Reform Bill. The committee looking at the bill will publish their Stage 1 Report shortly after Parliament returns from recess at the beginning of September and our MSPs largely remain uninformed, or unwilling to engage in the debate. This has to change, and we're asking everyone to visit their EIGHT MSPs over the few weeks and explain why they should not vote in favour of a bill based on self-identification of sex - the vote to take it through to the next stage may be as soon as the end of September. Your local group can help with meeting your MSPs and it might work well to arrange to go in small groups.
Put your postcode in HERE to find who your MSPs are, and their contact details.

I’m in England but want to help. Can I do this consultation?

JanieAllen · 03/08/2022 21:12

I know its incredibly irritating when you don't get a response but it doesn't mean it isn't having an effect. Thanks for putting those links up Betsy.

BetsyM00 · 03/08/2022 20:51

JanieAllen

The links in your copy of the newsletter didn't paste over - the link to the VAWG consultation is here:
consult.gov.scot/violence-against-women-team/violence-against-women-and-girls-services/consultation/subpage.2016-07-07.1474135251/

Can't believe Scotgov is trying it on again with changing the definition of woman!

And the newsletter is also here:
mailchi.mp/94567b1d568b/join-a-local-group

rogdmum · 03/08/2022 20:46

Writing to the Children’s Commissioner, Bruce Adamson, would.be helpful. He has been notably awful on the wider issue and aligns himself with LGBT Youth Scotland. My understanding is that he views this as a fringe issue so the more concerned people to write to him,, the better.

NitroNine · 03/08/2022 18:38

One angle that may help - as regards the strand of this that is completely about nationalism - is that Northern Ireland are in the middle of reforming their Gender Identity Services. The review phase is done; and I’d be astonished if they didn’t want to model the youth service on the proposed new offerings at GOSH/Evelina & Alder Hey.

Adult services in Belfast are actually relying on support from Scotland atm - they literally can’t get anyone to work there so they’ve got someone in Edinburgh doing video appointments. (This Vice article does not tell the story it thinks it does, either - I wonder if people might not want to work there because there’s a charity that thinks they should be running the show & GIS staff exist to supply [access to] hormones etc, none of this careful therapeutic exploration nonsense 🙄).

This isn’t intended to derail, sorry, I just wanted to try to make sure I’d provided a full/proper explanation & pertinent information should anyone wish to - try to - address the “differentiate from The English at all costs!!!” element.

JanieAllen · 03/08/2022 18:31

just had For Women Scotland's newsletter they have a series of actions

Sign up at their website

Hello, and thanks for reading our newsletter.
Consultation on review of Violence Against Women and Girls Services
I know we are probably all suffering from consultation fatigue but this one is really important and will take just a couple of minutes to do. As you can see from the first question the term "woman" has been redefined to include any man who declares himself to be a woman. After our judicial review win this just should not be happening!
Please respond in the box under question one that their definition of woman is unlawful and it should be changed to the biological definition "a female of any age" as defined in the Equality Act. As per the decision in For Women Scotland v LA and Scottish Ministers, "gender reassignment" is a separate protected characteristic from "sex" and the two should not be confused or conflated. The court ruled that provisions in favour of women must, by definition, exclude those who are biologically male, and that the Scottish Government cannot amend the definition of "woman".

Please also add a couple of short sentences on why it is important to you that women's services remain single-sex. For example, many women will opt to self-exclude themselves if there are male staff or service-users (regardless of how they identify), or worry if they can get help at all if a service has taken such an ideological stance, particularly if they have suffered abuse from a man who identifies as a woman. Some women (who may not identify as such) will be excluded entirely.
You don't have to answer the rest of the questions if you don't want to and you can tick the box for your response to be published anonymously, or not published at all, if you prefer.
Our response can be seen here.
Closing date for submissions is 15 August 2022.
Click to fill in the consultation on Violence Against Women & Girls Services
Are you interested in joining a local women's rights group?
If you want to get more involved in activism or are looking for support or advice please join in with one of the Scottish Feminist Network's local groups. We hear rumours there might be cake too!

Their website is here and they are also on Twitter here. Please drop them a message about joining one of the groups:
Aberdeen (City and Shire)
Argyll
Ayrshire
Borders
Clackmannanshire
Dundee and Angus
Dumbarton and Helensburgh
Dumfries and Galloway
Edinburgh and Lothians
Falkirk
Fife
Glasgow
Highlands and Islands
Inverclyde
Lanarkshire North
Lanarkshire South
Moray
Perth
Renfrewshire
Stirling
If your area isn't listed you can join the nearest group or they will try and build a new group.
It's getting near crisis point now with the Gender Recognition Reform Bill. The committee looking at the bill will publish their Stage 1 Report shortly after Parliament returns from recess at the beginning of September and our MSPs largely remain uninformed, or unwilling to engage in the debate. This has to change, and we're asking everyone to visit their EIGHT MSPs over the few weeks and explain why they should not vote in favour of a bill based on self-identification of sex - the vote to take it through to the next stage may be as soon as the end of September. Your local group can help with meeting your MSPs and it might work well to arrange to go in small groups.
Put your postcode in HERE to find who your MSPs are, and their contact details.

ScreechingEchoChamber · 03/08/2022 14:25

ScreechingEchoChamber · 03/08/2022 14:24

Another one who used to write to MP and MSPs but has given up. The best you'll get is a 'you're a bigot' response. Mostly, just radio silence. They just do not want to know.

Actually, I should be more specific: Tory MSPs will respond. SNPs and Greens - nope.

ScreechingEchoChamber · 03/08/2022 14:25

JanieAllen · 03/08/2022 13:15

MSPs may not reply but the volume of emails WILL make a difference. BTW if you send a request to a MSP to ask them to ask a question of a minister and they don't reply you can put in a complaint to Parliamentary Standards. They can only NOT ask the question if they have said its against their conscience. For Women Scotland has a letter which will be sent to all your MSPs regarding self ID. Apparently Sarah Boyack has had 300 emails.

That is interesting, thank you.

ScreechingEchoChamber · 03/08/2022 14:24

Another one who used to write to MP and MSPs but has given up. The best you'll get is a 'you're a bigot' response. Mostly, just radio silence. They just do not want to know.

Belovedfool · 03/08/2022 14:17

That's good to know, Janie. I'll do some more bugging then

JanieAllen · 03/08/2022 13:15

MSPs may not reply but the volume of emails WILL make a difference. BTW if you send a request to a MSP to ask them to ask a question of a minister and they don't reply you can put in a complaint to Parliamentary Standards. They can only NOT ask the question if they have said its against their conscience. For Women Scotland has a letter which will be sent to all your MSPs regarding self ID. Apparently Sarah Boyack has had 300 emails.

Signalbox · 03/08/2022 11:55

Sinead Watson is very vocal on this issue. I believe she was a patient at the Sandyford Clinic.

twitter.com/ImWatson91

rogdmum · 03/08/2022 11:55

I think we have been in a particularly dire situation since the departure of Joan McAlpine, Johann Lamont and Jenny Marra. Even the Scottish Tories have been exceptionally poor which I suspect is due to lack of interest at the top- Douglas Ross ignores approaches to him on the issue.

Belovedfool · 03/08/2022 11:48

It will be interesting to see if that happens. If there's a local service offered can the "patient" be referred to another health board?

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