How to square the circle of my trans sceptism and my trans friend?

Yeah, those posters are pretty transparent - I used to be GC but because you're all big meanies I don't think I am anymore. Or just general policing of how women are supposed to react or feel about issues. It's tiresome.

Haha, since my post pointing out nothing has been deleted I see the monitors managed to persuade MN that 2 posts are in fact 'extreme transphobia'.

I posit they likely expressed legitimate views within GC 'belief', but were not specifically mentioned in the recent rulings.

Oh well, at least we can talk using euphemisms here, every little helps

I think @Pluvia expresses my attitude well here:

'He would go into the category of several people I know and quite like, but could never feel close to because of their irrational beliefs. They include all the Christians and people of other faiths who build their lives around their sincere belief that there's a god out there watching over us:the people who sincerely believe in ghosts,:the sincere but deluded anti-vaxxers: the conspiracy theorists: the pagans and the mystic-woo spiritual people — all of them pleasant people in small doses but none of them grounded in reality.'

I know several young people who identify as trans. I genuinely treat them the same way as my most proselytizing-prone religious friends, or those still obsessed by Brexit (on either side) - lovely people, much in common to discuss and share. As long as they are aware some issues are not something we will agree on and accept it politely.

I don't think I need people to think the same way as me to like them and want to be their friend. Not everyone is happy operating that way, and that's something I also accept

Lol @ShirleyPhallus , your first post on this thread said 'but do find that some of the views here are extreme and transphobic' and then you complain on hostility?

Where's your proof, what extreme and transphobic views have you identified, reported and had removed, on this thread?

It's always the same - come on the tread with 'I'm GC, but y'all extreme transphobes in your echo chamber', get challenged on anything, shout about hostility, flounce. Periodically plop in with irrelevant derails till boredom (?) sets in. I think you're currently in stage 3.

This is honestly the exact kind of shit that puts women off posting on FWR because of these oddly aggressive posts

Leaving aside the many other issues, isn't that why MNHQ ostensibly split FWR into 'Chat' and 'Sex and Gender'. tbh, I've not noticed a substantial uptick in women posting on FWR 'Chat' which was created for a different culture (?) and was supposed to create a forum for different issues where the users hadn't been quite so under siege as FWR has been for so long.

This is honestly the exact kind of shit that puts women off posting on FWR because of these oddly aggressive posts.

And this isn't aggressive?

Lol ok. You do you ✌🏼

Is this a reverse?

ShirleyPhallus:

If you can’t help what was the point of posting, beyond just making a horrible dig at the OP?

You accused the poster who was making a reasonable point (that I and and no one else seems to have had a problem with) of being deliberately horrible with the very strong subtext that she shouldn't have voiced her opinion. You, who apparently hate aggression, have actually written the most aggressive post on this thread...

Absolutely (although I'm not GC).

This is honestly the exact kind of shit that puts women off posting on FWR because of these oddly aggressive posts. I don’t want to silence womens views. I am GC. But I find that so many responses here are aggressive and make odd accusations (such as “silencing women”) if you don’t 100% agree with the most extreme views

I think that’s absolutely fine. You know the person, you’re able to judge who & what you’re supporting. You’re not compromising your reality-based position by being a friend.

Ultimately we’re all trying to get through our lives - ideally doing as little harm as possible (including to ourselves).

I think some of the most pernicious aspects of the Trans Activist lobby is persuading people that anyone who isn’t 100% onboard with the whole packet is an evil bigot who wants them tortured & dead, & is likely a Nazi to boot.

Because this is a discussion board, not a 'be kind' problem page, and we're allowed to both hold and state our opinions. Why do you want to silence women's views?

Sorry to hear that Popsicle. Sadly, sexism and misogyny is so pervasive that a lot of people find it hard to actually see - it's like fish trying to see water.

Your friend clearly has not the first clue about women's lives.

I've unfortunately had a big argument with a gay male friend tonight and been called 'anti trans' and a bigot for saying I don't want a man in female toilets and changing rooms. He thinks my concern for safety and anger at erosion of women's rights is 'fascist' and reports of abuse are hysteria. He then bizarrely started to trying to equate my beliefs that some trans women (men) are sexual predators with racism. I'm done with this fucking bullshit.

I’ve had to process this myself with a colleague who is a transwoman.

I try to make a clear distinction between the person in front of me - a human being whom I like - and gender extremist/transactivist ideology.

Here’s an analogy:

I’m an atheist and pretty deeply sceptical and critical of the depredations of the Christian church, Islamic fundamentalism, and strict Judaism. But I have dear friends who are Christian, Muslim and Jewish.

Or:
I know that men and men’s actions cause the majority of crime - 98% of sexual crime, for example.

But I love individual men.

I'm still wondering about the ex-wife and whether (despite her conveniently 'middle-class' and 'right wing' 'Christian', 'anti-gay family') she is gaining emotional support and proper financial support for the children (all of whom seem like awfully good sports in this as wives and children are expected to be).

To point out the fundamental inconsistency of claiming to support women's sex-based rights while accepting self-ID, exemplified by the OP saying that she doesn't agree with "bastardising the language of pronouns" and then going on to refer to her trans-identified male friend as "she".

Hope that helps! If not, try reading it again more slowly. 😉

That poster literally said “I can’t help you”

But suggesting that I might be a TRA because I don’t 100% agree with some of the views on here is both laughable and absolutely proves my point

I have no issue with trans people who are not looking to trample over my rights or erase my existence.

OP asked whether or not readers felt sympathy and understanding towards male friends who have transitioned.

WhiskerPatrol gave an honest answer, as requested.

Questioning OP's feminism, in the context, looks like fair criticism to me, not a 'horrible dig'. The TRA tendency to describe any criticism or difference of opinion as 'hate' or other hyperbolic terms makes debate very difficult.