Harry miller arrested

it does seem that some people struggle with the idea of free speech even for those they disagree with

as a PP pointed out, free speech types are often dicks. I consider these two men to be total dicks

and yet I'll strongly defend their right to be dicks because that protects my right to civil discourse about things I consider to be important

So once again police have walked right into a set up. The issue is not whether or not we believe something is right or wrong. Its whether its a a crime that matters. And if it isn't then why are police getting involved. Especially when actual crimes are going un responded to.

There are lots if things that are offensive/wrong/disgusting/racist/sexist/threatening etc that are posted on twitter/social media. I mean at one point it was full of MAPs openly posting about being a MAP. None of which police showed up for.

They are allowing themselves to be showed up as idiots. For people who's livelihood is meant to be investigating and putting entire cases together requiring a huge degree of intelligence, they have walked into this with disturbing ease.

Faith in the police is at an.all time low. Amd without the cooperation of the public they cant do their jobs. Sadly police have picked their side. And its not us.

This thread is about harry being arrested

so thats what i am going to address

as far as i can see from the video and the information ive seen here and elsewhere harry was arrested for ‘complaining’ that the police did not follow the correct procedures when talking to the person who posted the picture

i’ll tell you whats a ‘dark day’ ….its when people who would like the police to obey their own rules when interacting with members of the public are arrested

• should be policed

Because who defines what is objectionable? Or irritating? Or unpleasant?

Well Mumsnet absolutely can define that. As can Twitter and Facebook seemingly. It seems to be that social media is dictating very successfully how real life should be pleased hence it leaking out into the police force. If the government could find a way to manage social media I suspect this shit would quieten down.

It isn’t about making apologies. I’m not making apologies. This just isn’t illegal. They are entitled to do things you or I might find offensive. That’s what pluralism looks like. The opposite is totalitarianism.

*I don't think it's particularly funny. Lawrence fox is someone I find unpleasant, objectionable and irritating. Harry seems like the kind of man I dread dealing with in my professional capacity and would swerve where possible.

but you do understand that we aren't 'defending' a swastika being used we are defending the right of people to be (in my opinion) unpleasant, objectionable and irritating without getting arrested for having those views.

Because who defines what is objectionable? Or irritating? Or unpleasant?*

Exactly.

But anyone comparing trans issues to Nazi Germany isn't someone I would seek to defend or make apologies for.

Comparing trans activists to Nazi Germany. Again, you’re not it getting right.

• Say something someone takes offence to
• Report it to a higher authority
• Higher authority uses police power to punish those who said the offensive thing.

They proved their authoritarian perspective by reacting to the thing calling them authoritarian in an authoritarian way.

Can you not see a comparison at all? If not Nazis then what else? The Stasi? I’ve always felt it analogous to McCarthyism personally. But it’s sometimes that’s for sure.

But anyone comparing trans issues to Nazi Germany isn't someone I would seek to defend or make apologies for.

The comparison is how TRAs leverage the police to silence people and punish them for wrong think

The judge in Harry's court of appeal said recording people for wrong think was unlawful and that we do not have the cheka, stasi or gestapo in the Uk.

That's where the reference comes from

Terrifying rather than funny

It strikes me that HM was pretty keen to get arrested so it could be posted on FB.

I think whilst the transactivists behave like immature children they will continue to make our point for us. It seems they can't help themselves to use the power they have created to call out anyone who does not agree with their dogma. Just like with Kelly Jay they play into the hands of people who oppose their authoritarianism by being authoritarian themselves.

Do we don't know if it was a transactivist who reported their anxiety at seeing four of the progress flags reoriented in this manner? Remember the flags were in no way photoshopped or edited just placed in a pattern.

I haven't admonished anyone for discussing the issue, which is probably why you opted to quote me out of context.

Perhaps the police have overreacted, we haven't got a great deal of info here. You can be arrested for a hate crime for using swastika imagery so it's hardly surprising some action was taken.

My views on gender align with many of those on FWR; I'd like to see single sex spaces properly protected and I'm concerned about erasure in health care. But anyone comparing trans issues to Nazi Germany isn't someone I would seek to defend or make apologies for.

Interesting how the Nazis didn't need genital inspections to separate men and women on arrival at the concentration camps.

(Just finished If This Is A Man if anyone wants to read about oppressed minorities and literal violence.)

No, I mean Harry and Lawrence Fox.

So knowing the law and pointing out the lack of following procedure is an offence now?

6 police officers!6!!

When is the last time police forces had that kind of resources for actual crimes?

Reminds me of the times when people would get arrested for making jokes about our "brave and fearless" leader. But that was the '80s in a communist country, not 2022 in bloody England!

I cannot get over how perfectly the TRAs and cops have managed to prove the point that is being made by that rearranged flag.

I hope that this gets lots and lots of publicity.

And on top of that they arrested Harry Miller of all people for no reason.

Yes, it’s a horrifying symptom of rising authoritarianism but at least they totally cocked it up in a way that’s going to shine a big bright light on it all.

The free speech people are dicks sometimes.
The TRAs are dicks quite a lot of the time.
Mumsnetters are dicks now and again.
Twitter is the capital city of dickery and tweeters dick about all the time.
Dicks are present everywhere and it is our duty to 😃 at them.
Surely no need to be anxious if we all understand this and any appropriate rules are heeded...?

The rearranged flag is a shocking image.

The authoritarianism of current times harks back directly to the 1930s.

This modern way of dealing with people whose opinions you don't like by sicking the police on them is deeply disturbing. Shudder.

I hear HM now released. We shall see what unfolds. This plus PP on the weekend is holding a mirror up, isn't it.

I completely agree with this.

Very worrying and sinister that people are getting arrested for satire. That is a key symptom of a state in the grip of authoritarianism.

I assume he’ll be able to sue for wrongful arrest then.

Dark day for mumsnet.

The constant attempts to shame posters on the MN FWR board means that sentences like this are now commonplace.

Is the implication that the person who posts that image on the internet not worthy of the protections under the law of due process and unbiased application of laws?

Where is the illegal act that means that this person should be treated in such a way?

I find many things vile and disgusting that others find hilarious. I find it hugely concerning that someone should be subjected to a police visit for causing a person to be offended though.

And yet, here we are being admonished for discussing it.

Dark day for Mumsnet?🤣🤣

You can’t simultaneously dismiss a (false) claim of hyperbole - that TRAs are being considered genocidal - and at the same time decide hyperbolically that such a (false) thing is a “dark day” for an entire site of millions of views.

The Pride Swastika flag is not to say TRAs are genocidal like Nazis (although plenty of them accused Helen Joyce of exactly that 🤨) it’s to say TRAs are authoritarian like Nazis. To which they responded by getting the police to go round and arrest someone they didn’t like 🤔.

If you’re going to object to the satirical flag at least be accurate.

Anyone who doesn't consider that contocted flag to be anything but repulsive is no ally for women or humankind in general. Think what you like about TRAs, it doesn't compare to genocide.

It doesn't matter if we find it repulsive or not, posting it on social media is not illegal. we should expect the police to act in accordance with the law for everyone, whether we agree with those people or not.