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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Harry miller arrested

464 replies

chilling19 · 28/07/2022 22:16

twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1jMJgemEeybKL

OP posts:
TheBestBitch · 29/07/2022 12:13

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/07/2022 11:09

I couldn’t get the video to play last night, but I’ve now been able to watch it

I think the sequence of events is

  • A man who isn’t LF or HM posted the swastika image on Facebook
  • the police came to his house at 10am on a Sunday morning and failed to caution him, but did try to get him to pay a £60 on the spot fine
  • presumably he told them to get stuffed and called LF and HM
  • the police went away and came back. (By appointment as LF and HM knew when to be there?)
  • HM pointed out a failure in their process
  • the police arrested him for annoying them
  • the police released him due to not having a leg to stand on
why the heck are the police attempting to regulate Facebook?

its really quite disturbing isn’t it?

and Posie Parker being spoken to by the police “for being untoward about paedophiles”

WTAF is going on?

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 29/07/2022 12:11

as an actual Jewish person: yes, those parts are antisemitic

You do know that Helen Joyce's "actual Jewish" colleagues in the Economist were baffled by this accusation and gave their perspective that it's unfounded and untrue.

As above, actual page references and quotations would be helpful.

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 12:11

Thanks, CrossPurposes.

Is this what you meant when you said Joyce was 'ranting that Jewish billionaires are behind the trans agenda', Jemima?

CrossPurposes · 29/07/2022 12:08

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:55

I loved the Helen Joyce book so much until the part where she started ranting that Jewish billionaires are behind the trans agenda.

Which part of the book was this, please?

I have the book in hand. Pages 227-228 mention three billionaires who Helen Joyce introduces like so: "A movement that focuses on the levers of power rather than building grassroots support is one in which wealthy people can have considerable sway." She then has three paragraphs on Jennifer Pritzker, Jon Stryker, and George Soros.

I failed to spot any ranting and she certainly does not mention their Jewishness (and it is unclear whether Stryker is actually Jewish).

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/07/2022 12:06

I’m wondering if the correct response to fake news posts like @JemimaPuddlegoose ’s is to report them a libellous rather than respond

I tend to take the view that no one should be silenced and I will not attempt to use MNHQ to do so. But if someone is prepared to break the social contract by simply lying, how the heck do you respond effectively?

PronounssheRa · 29/07/2022 12:04

I've seen lots of threads here that were overtly homophobic (claiming that teenagers can't be gay and that people are only gay if they've been groomed into it)

really, on this part of the board?

DarkDayforMN · 29/07/2022 12:01

They remind the suspect that this is their third visit, having previously intervened pursuant to a joke about Tom Daley’s knitting, and the reposting of a Hitler in a bunker meme.

From Harry's article. The police came round to the same guy about a Downfall meme?

Someone has been using the police as a weapon to harass this man, and they've been allowing it. It sounds like in fact they were gleefully co-operating with it.

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:55

I loved the Helen Joyce book so much until the part where she started ranting that Jewish billionaires are behind the trans agenda.

Which part of the book was this, please?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/07/2022 11:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:52

DarkDayforMN · 29/07/2022 11:43

For the avoidance of doubt: I share the picture to illustrate why I find serried ranks of flags disturbing. If we are unable to discuss fascism, with illustrative points, how will we avoid repeating the mistakes that led to war?

I wonder if you could be arrested for it if you'd shared that picture under your real name? Or perhaps only if juxtaposed with Regent Street?

It's so telling what they react to, isn't it? Ceri Black had police all over her for talking about child safeguarding. Now an arrest for pointing out the creeping authoritarianism. Wasn't another arrest for suffragette ribbons?

It's somewhat worrying that I am worried about sharing that picture.

Imnobody4 · 29/07/2022 11:50

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1552897044443971584.html
He's also tweeted.

One of the arresting officers was wearing a rainbow badge that said Hampshire Police on it. I told her that I refused to recognise her authority to arrest a man over a flag when she herself was wearing one.

We had a pre-action protocol written by our barrister and addressed to the Chief Constable. The officers refused to take it saying “We’re not post men.’. This will end badly for @HantsPolice I want blood. @threadreaderapp unroll.

GettingMarriedAgain · 29/07/2022 11:50

Wasn’t there some guidance recently (was it from the College of Policing?) that police shouldn’t be policing upsets on social media or non-crime hate incidents?

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 29/07/2022 11:50

This reply has been deleted

Deleted for repeating a deleted post.

ControversialOpening · 29/07/2022 11:49

Racism and hate against Jewish women is NOT ACCEPTABLE and has no place in the GC movement

I couldn't agree more Jemima. Has there been anything like that int his thread? Serious question - I might have missed it.

DarkDayforMN · 29/07/2022 11:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DarkDayforMN · 29/07/2022 11:43

For the avoidance of doubt: I share the picture to illustrate why I find serried ranks of flags disturbing. If we are unable to discuss fascism, with illustrative points, how will we avoid repeating the mistakes that led to war?

I wonder if you could be arrested for it if you'd shared that picture under your real name? Or perhaps only if juxtaposed with Regent Street?

It's so telling what they react to, isn't it? Ceri Black had police all over her for talking about child safeguarding. Now an arrest for pointing out the creeping authoritarianism. Wasn't another arrest for suffragette ribbons?

ControversialOpening · 29/07/2022 11:42

Somebody is jabbing away at the 'report' button again.

Of course it's nothing like Nazism to shut down opinions you disagree with.

JemimaPuddlegoose · 29/07/2022 11:42

I know no one wants to hear this, but as an Orthodox Jew and a GC feminist (who has particular concerns that the TRA movement could force observant Jewish women and women of other religious faiths into horrible positions) I find this very very frightening and sinister.

First, there has been a huge push by forces on the far right to exploit GC views in order to push a right wing agenda. I've seen lots of threads here that were overtly homophobic (claiming that teenagers can't be gay and that people are only gay if they've been groomed into it), threads attacking anything perceived as even slightly "woke" (like being against racism) as being aligned with trans rights and therefore bad, and lots of threads and posts advocating that we should support right wing men like Jordan Peterson or right wing politicians, even Donald Trump on the grounds "they know what a woman is!" Yes they know what a woman is so they know who to abuse and oppress. I won't tolerate the right exploiting our as women genuine concerns about the TRA to promote rapists and violent men who hate women and want to ban reproductive rights. It's horrifying. Men on the far right are not "GC", they are not pro-women, they just hate trans people and they hate natal women just as much.

Second, there has been some antisemitism in the GC movement. I loved the Helen Joyce book so much until the part where she started ranting that Jewish billionaires are behind the trans agenda. Yes, I know she tweeted that she's not antisemitic but as an actual Jewish person: yes, those parts are antisemitic. The libel that wealthy Jews control the world (hell, even the idea of "wealthy Jews" when statistically Jews in America have lower average incomes than almost anyone and most Haredi live in poverty) is extremely and actively dangerous. That myth directly, directly led to the Holocaust due to the German government blaming its post-Treaty of Versailles poverty on Jews and actively spreading hate propaganda claiming that German people were starving due to wealthy Jews hogging all the money, when the real reason was Germany having to pay such onerous war reparations after WWI. Joyce may not have intended her book to be antisemitic and she may not even have known that she was falling into an antisemitic trope, but she was, and it does real damage to Jewish people and Jewish women.

Anyone laughing at a swastika, or accusing Jewish women of "playing the victim card", or playing the whole "oversensitive Jews choosing to be offended" need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and maybe pick up a history book.

Racism and hate against Jewish women is NOT ACCEPTABLE and has no place in the GC movement.

Imnobody4 · 29/07/2022 11:40

Harry's just written this account.
thecritic.co.uk/the-facebook-police/

His criticism of new guidance is pretty on the ball as well.

Helleofabore · 29/07/2022 11:39

Maybeonedayeventually · 29/07/2022 08:15

I haven't admonished anyone for discussing the issue, which is probably why you opted to quote me out of context.

Perhaps the police have overreacted, we haven't got a great deal of info here. You can be arrested for a hate crime for using swastika imagery so it's hardly surprising some action was taken.

My views on gender align with many of those on FWR; I'd like to see single sex spaces properly protected and I'm concerned about erasure in health care. But anyone comparing trans issues to Nazi Germany isn't someone I would seek to defend or make apologies for.

I can’t quite get over the thought that ‘dark day for Mumsnet’ is not intended to be an admonishment.

What else did you intend it to be?

BlossomsOnATree · 29/07/2022 11:38

When I saw the 4 flags as swastika image (can't remember where but it seems to me like it was a few weeks ago) I didn't think it was funny, just interesting. I saw it as a statement that gender ideology is comparable to Nazism in its use of threats, coercion and pushing an ideology, and that the new flag contains elements that do recall the parts of a swastika - probably not deliberately, but it probably was deliberate to give the new elements of the flag that pointed, hard-edged aggressive vibe and position them so they appear to be dominating or taking over the old rainbow flag.

As I'm old and grew up in an era of free thought and speech (relative to now) I literally just thought "interesting commentary" and moved on. I never understand the insane paranoia and kneejerk reactions over anything Hitler- or Nazi-related. We should understand them, and comparisons to them, in the context of history like we do with anything else.

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:32

For the avoidance of doubt: I share the picture to illustrate why I find serried ranks of flags disturbing. If we are unable to discuss fascism, with illustrative points, how will we avoid repeating the mistakes that led to war?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 29/07/2022 11:31

I’ve got no problem with police officers staying safe

I’d guess the first lot took a look at HM and LF and thought ‘big blokes, ideological nutjobs, this could kick off, I’m calling for back up’

of course the spectacle of 2 police vehicles and 6 officers being kept busy over a Facebook post could have been easily avoided by them taking no interest whatsoever in the original report

DarkDayForPearlClutchingVipers · 29/07/2022 11:29

I find serried ranks of any flag disturbing, frankly.

Even if a flag starts as a joyful celebratory flourish, which the rainbow flag certainly did way back when, the uniformity and repetitive pattern soon looks authoritarian and intimidating.

Harry miller arrested
DarkDayforMN · 29/07/2022 11:28

It's a Dark Day for all of us, don't worry!

Dark days indeed. Dark days indeed.

(I just love the portentousness of the phrase. It makes me feel like a bystander in a pub in a fantasy novel just before the main plot starts.)

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