Is trans movement now, comparable to LGB movement back in the day?

violence against trans women specifically vs cisgender women

Can we ditch the "cis" nonsense? This is one of many reasons that women get annoyed with the trans agenda.

@Helleofabore @FireFlyBoogaloo

i grew up in the southern us in the 80s where homophobia was rampant. At the time the homophobes clutched their pearls for ‘the boys’ worried about their sons being in bathrooms/ changing rooms with gay men. I could basically copy and replace trans with gay men and girls with boys for all of the above.

history did not side with the homophobes, and I don’t see it siding with you.

So the report was in 2019 based on 17/18 data: Link

do you really believe trans women are not at risk? Or do you just not care?

And our own archive thread for anecdotal evidence unofficially collected.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread?page=1

Twitter thread of totally not men, totally not committing violence.

twitter.com/ILOVETINY/status/1502954339815464962

Even better dark day, we have been told an analysis of the UK transitioned male prison population (with an almost full coverage of that population) is too small to be worthy of consideration… you know, the actual analysis of the full population is worthless because … it is hypothetical risk fearmongering .

Err. No. It is an analysis of the crimes committed by the UK transitioned male prison population with a very clear propensity towards committing sex crime at at least a male sex crime rate.

It's also important to break down stats - if you are talking about a population that has a high incidents of being involved in sex work, which is true in the trans population, they are far more likely to be assaulted.

Here’s the NCVS summary report from the US in 2019. One mention of “trans” and it’s transportation.
bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv19.pdf

It’s clearly bullshit. If it wasn’t they would give a real citation.

Meanwhile, it remains the case that no evidence suggests transwomen are less dangerous to women than other men, and most of the available evidence suggests they are more dangerous. Maybe some clapping emojis would help it penetrate?

I’d like to see the ONS data linked to see if it is the oft linked stats that we constantly see posted.

I will be very happy to be proved wrong

I can’t Google it. I’m on my phone. Please give an actual citation. With a link. Or it’s bullshit like every other TRA statistic.

Was he there? Did he see it first hand?

As similar as a banana to a teapot.

The prison stats are representative of the UK transitioned male prison population.

It is an actual snapshot of that population. Not a sample.

Why do you feel the continued need to handwave them away and then try to redirect people’s attention to what victims this group is?

We have seen this distraction technique time and time again. We will simply keep coming back to the fact that there is absolutely no evidence that transitioned males are any less of a risk to any female than any other male.

Therefore, there is absolutely no evidence that this group of males should be treated as a special low risk group, despite your continued assertions to the contrary.

If this subgroup of males should have free access into female single sex spaces, so should every single other male on the planet.

There is demonstrable harm though. There are males posting footage of themselves in threatening poses in female facilities, of them masturbating in female toilets on porn sites as just the start.

There has been reported incidents of abuse and assault by transitioned males in female prisons.

There has been transitioned males indecently exposing themselves in female single sex spaces, and assaulting children.

There are female rape victims telling the world that they are feeling unsafe to use previously female single sex spaces, and are actually going without the care they need because of the presence of transitioned males.

How many females of any age are you willing to write off as collateral damage because the statistics of ‘demonstrable harm’ are not being separated out and reported?

god it’s deeply deeply tedious having to go over the same ground a gazillion times for the absolutely determined to Centre men above all else

trans women are men and there is absolutely no evidence that they offend at a lesser rate than men who don’t wear dresses and lipstick

we are beyond fucked off at being asked to beeee kiiiind by ppl on the side of TRA who threaten women with murder, violence & rape

if TW are afraid of men that’s not womens problem to solve. We are not bloody support humans to the mighty penis

fucksake

@Helleofabore the prison stats are small and quite frankly don’t say much about the population at large. There is no evidence of actual harm, nor is there clear evidence of no harm. Showing demonstrable harm should be easy if it is so widespread. Proving no harm is almost impossible- possibly the reason you have chosen that as your threshold.

@MangyInseam there is also a staggering wage gap for trans vs cisgender =)

for those that want to look everything up, this is from a McKinsey study in 2020/2021

Please do not use the term cis.

You have failed to provide any statistics or studies that show that transitioned males have a lower risk than the male population. Females don’t share single sex spaces with males because these spaces are separated for a reason.

Shall we post anecdotal evidence of transitioned males in female single sex spaces masturbating, or posing with swords, or with erections. To use your words, these are quite easy to find using Google or on porn sites.

Having come from an IndustrIal relations background, I am very familiar with the history of female discrimination, lack of representation and pay inequality. I am also concerned how the inclusion of transitioned males can effect these issues. Particularly when you start investigating these issues at specific levels where males dominate and transitioned male inclusion into these statistics can make a difference.

Your continued denial of the risk that is presented by all males, regardless of gender identity as ‘hypothetical’ is ignoring the reality.

the UK prison statistics do not lie. I am not sure why you have chosen to continue to ignore them. You cannot provide any other statistics to counter them, but have doubled down to deny that transitioned males have the same risk or greater at committing sex crimes than the rest of the male population.

Unfortunately, if male and female have no objective meaning, there isn't much you can say empirically about the pay gap.

@Helleofabore there is no data that cis women face greater risk when sharing spaces with trans women. Therefore the fears are hypothetical.

as for being ‘male centered’, it is possible as a woman to come to a very different opinion. Personally I feel the whole GC movement has misappropriated feminism, distracting us from more important/ widespread issues like pay inequality, lack of representation, real actual violence (not the hypothetical kind), etc.

data is not published in the uk at that granularity but in 2020 ONS did share that trans (not further specified) are 2x times as likely to be victims of crime than cisgender

Please detail what type of crime. Because if these are the same numbers that get posted here often, they include crimes such as misgendering and such.

So please do post links to back up your claims.

Sorry that should have been for @Labadabbado

OK here goes.

BBC article here www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42221629

Results of FOI - https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiVh9-R9575AhWwSUEAHUbUCxEQFnoECDMQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.publishing.service.gov.uk%2Fgovernment%2Fuploads%2Fsystem%2Fuploads%2Fattachmentdata%2Ffile%2F954427%2FFOII200827019transgenderrprisonpopulationn-sexualloffendersbyy_offence.odt&usg=AOvVaw2iY3upRlOLgBX82vi3dTxA

139 prisoners, 63 for sexual offences so 45%

Question 1

For the March/April 2018 data collection, there was a total of 63 transgender offenders in prison custody sentenced for one or another offence of a sexual nature.

Question 2

At table 1 below, I have provided a breakdown of the numbers in each category of sexual offence for which the 63 offenders identified in the March/April 2018 collection exercise, were sentenced.

Table 1: Sexual offences recorded for transgender prisoners identified in the March/April 2018 data collection, who were sentenced with one or more sexual offence

Rape 31
Attempted rape ~
Possessing/distributing/making indecent photograph or pseudo-photograph of child 23
Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault 13
Causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity 11
Sexual activity with a child under 16 ~
Indecent assault or gross indecency 11
Other sexual offences(1) 10
Total number of sexual offences for which 63 transgender prisoners were sentenced 111

Total number of transgender prisoners sentenced for one or more sexual offence in each year 63
Total number of transgender prisoners in March/April of each year 139

The most detailed data comes from the US where they have been collecting data on trans victims since at least 2018 - the National crime victimisation survey is done by the US bureau of justice statistics. Reporting from 2019 shows a 4x rate of violence against trans women specifically vs cisgender women, and also that ~50% have been victims of sexual violence in their lifetime. Rates are far higher non-whites.

data is not published in the uk at that granularity but in 2020 ONS did share that trans (not further specified) are 2x times as likely to be victims of crime than cisgender

not great at links, but all of the above easily googled.

So no stats or studies that show transitioned males to have a risk of committing sex crime at female levels… but a claim that thread is full of fearmongering about hypothetical risks.

While also being told transitioned males are a group that is at higher risk for abuse and discrimination. Being a woman can be hard, being a trans woman is frequently ten times harder.

It really is remarkable how male centred some posts on these boards can be.

also citation please re your figure on 50% of transwomen being sexually assaulted!