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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How is this offensive?

136 replies

KnittingNeedles · 27/07/2022 18:00

DD is 19 and volunteers in Oxfam. This poster is currently in the window of the store she works in - it was a Pride thing but she thinks they have just not got round to taking it out.

www.oxfam.org.uk/oxfam-in-action/oxfam-blog/celebrating-pride-2022/

The way she - and I - interpret the poster is that the charity is welcoming and inclusive, and however you define yourself, you are welcome in store. Although I know the charity has a reputation for being very "woke", this is a very bland message really.

DD was on the till yesterday and some woman came into the store demanding she remove the poster. DD asked why - woman said it was "forced speech" and a "very political statement" and ranted on about Stonewall for a bit. DD is fairly clued up on the whole sex/gender debate and tried to explain that's not what it was about, it was a message of tolerance and acceptance. Customer was having none of it and went off saying she was going to complain.

I'm confused. I'm as gender critical as they come but surely part of that is accepting that although I don't personally buy into gender other people do, and I respect their right to hold that opinion, just as I hope they respect my right to disagree with them. And that however you define yourself, of course you should be treated with respect in any shop. No I won't be giving you my pronouns as those should be blindingly obvious, but the poster isn't saying you won't be served without sharing yours.

Bemused.

OP posts:
ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 27/07/2022 21:46

ZaraSizeMedium · 27/07/2022 18:45

Surely by now the shop should have taken this pister down and should now be displaying a disability pride poster - given that it’s Disability Pride Month.

Maybe your daughter can ask when that poster is going up? I’m sure they do have a poster to put up, they just “haven’t got round” to putting it up yet.

That's a good point.

Why isn't Oxfam supporting people with disabilities, who face obstacles many times worse than hearing someone use a pronoun they don't like? Why in fact, is Oxfam discriminating against people with disabilities, by ignoring their pride month while leaving up posters celebrating the gender identity movement?

Aren't disabilities interesting enough?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 27/07/2022 21:36

Mmm, what a totally great story

I am as convinced as they come

VestofAbsurdity · 27/07/2022 21:34

Since Oxfam stopped selling a game for girls based on ‘famous women” as Oxfam staff didn’t like because it didn’t include transwomen, I have avoided Oxfam. I wrote politely, to say the game was for little girls to have role models so they could aspire to be more than sexual objects for men and bearers of children, but they couldn’t bear that men would be excluded.

I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot barge pole after the revelations regarding the sexual abuse of women and girls by their aid workers and this just adds the proverbial cherry on the top of how misogynistic they are.

FunnyTalks · 27/07/2022 21:33

I like my local shop but stopped my monthly dd ages ago because of the aforementioned prostitutes /paedophile scandal and the way they handled it. They have since clearly decided that gender ideology is a good look for them and I guess as they struggle to condemn misogyny and child abuse, it is (I'm referring to hard-line gender ideology, not trans people, many of whom do not support it).

There are tonnes of smaller charities doing similar work who aren't into misogyny /child abuse. There are threads on here should anyone be looking for one to donate to. I'm actually hesitant to recommend the one I donate to as they're tiny and a TRA pile on would be unfair.

ScrollingLeaves · 27/07/2022 21:30

i don’t think she should have been shouting at your daughter but to me that poster is an intrusion that has no place in the shop. It seems to be making the shop all about Western ‘Pride’, specifically the people in the poster and Oxfam’s view of itself - nothing about the people it is for. Of all the pronouns listed what it is saying is “Me, me, me.”

Also it was not welcoming all customers - for that you only need three words, “All are welcome”.

Far from it. To me it says, “We here at Oxfam believe in trans gender ideology and make that the centre of our focus ( that’s why we are listing pronouns). Aren’t we great! Too bad if you aren’t one of us.”

i don’t think the little girls around the world being married off/sold could identify out of their fates etc Or the starving people care about what pronouns they have.

Since Oxfam stopped selling a game for girls based on ‘famous women” as Oxfam staff didn’t like because it didn’t include transwomen, I have avoided Oxfam. I wrote politely, to say the game was for little girls to have role models so they could aspire to be more than sexual objects for men and bearers of children, but they couldn’t bear that men would be excluded.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 27/07/2022 21:29

BlackForestCake · 27/07/2022 18:38

Actually I was passing an Oxfam shop and saw the poster in question. I didn’t go in an complain, but it made me feel unwelcome. Feed that back.

yes I agree. I understand where OP is coming from but it does upset me too. I mean not to the extent that I'd go in and rant at a volunteer but to the extent that I'd feel sad and less likely to go in.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt OP the reason it's upsetting is like emotionally if something really valuable and important was stolen by a bully, say like the terrific mountain bike you got for your 14th birthday and you were walking through town and saw the bully with your bike wearing a t-shirt that said "this bike is mine now", you might feel sad and not say anything another person might go up and yell at his parents (who believe the bike has always been his and therefore think shes being crazy).

It may be the case with this woman or she could just be a member of one of the many homophobic churches who just sees rainbows as encouraging immorality - I'm afraid we don't have enough info to go on to be sure.

KittenKong · 27/07/2022 21:11

BlackForestCake · 27/07/2022 18:38

Actually I was passing an Oxfam shop and saw the poster in question. I didn’t go in an complain, but it made me feel unwelcome. Feed that back.

Me too. The whole pronouns thing sold as if it welcomes everyone (including women). Pah .

But they had blotted their copy books with me ages ago. Even DH refuses to go in there (he used to get their calendars and coffee) after the whole sex for aid/pedophilia thing was exposed a few years back.

Most if the stores have taken that particular poster down - but not replaced it with a disability awareness one I noticed. So many other better charities.

VestofAbsurdity · 27/07/2022 20:51

I had to get my computer to open that link in an incognito window it wouldn't open otherwise, mm spooky.

I'm guessing Oxfam has posters up for disability inclusiveness and awareness or how about International Women's Day they must put a poster up for that surely, I mean they know all about women especially when their aid workers and high profile people in the upper echelons are looking for ones to sexually abuse.

and this:

You’re not confused though are you.

Knock off the disingenuous bullshit we can see through it a mile off.

Beancounter1 · 27/07/2022 20:50

DisappearingGirl · 27/07/2022 20:26

The grammar is a bit wonky

This charity is for him - fine
This charity is for her - fine
This charity is for them - fine

This charity is for they - ?

(sorry)

Yup - the poster is offensive to those who value the grammar of the English language.
Otherwise, a waste of money that probably doesn't serve their charitable objectives.

BenCoopersSupportWren · 27/07/2022 20:40

Oh lovely, some more wide eyed disingenuousness. We haven’t had any of that in forever.

TheNeverEndingOver · 27/07/2022 20:34

You’re not confused though are you.

DisappearingGirl · 27/07/2022 20:26

The grammar is a bit wonky

This charity is for him - fine
This charity is for her - fine
This charity is for them - fine

This charity is for they - ?

(sorry)

ScreamingMeMe · 27/07/2022 20:08

I stopped donating to Oxfam after this:

Oxfam, one of the UK's biggest charities, has dominated the headlines in recent weeks following allegations its staff hired prostitutes while working overseas.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43112200.amp

CbaThinkingOfAUsername · 27/07/2022 19:43

I've recently donated to Oxfam. I'm not sure how happy I am with them spending the money I give them on the design and printing of thousands of LGBTABCDEFG... posters for shops up and down the country when it could be going towards what is meant to be their actual cause.

DappledOliveGroves · 27/07/2022 19:38

I'm bisexual and gender critical and now absolutely loathe the new Pride flag, Pride month and anything to do with bloody Pride. I actively avoid shops and organisations that display the flag or poster and long for the day when corporations don't feel the need to display their woke credentials.

Pride is now essentially synonymous with Queer Theory and transactivism. Pride does not represent me, nor many others who are gay, lesbian or bisexual. Instead it pushes kink and pronouns.

So I can understand anyone criticising an Oxfam poster on this basis. They need to focus on their charitable aim and stop with the virtue-signalling.

NitroNine · 27/07/2022 19:38

@ZaraSizeMedium
Just what I was thinking. The overwhelming outpouring of support, the huge amount of media coverage, the disability pride flag being flown everywhere…

It’s so lovely to see such concern for a group who are being so severely impacted by the cost of living crisis (on top of the well-documented extra costs of simply existing as a disabled person - on average £583pcm for an adult in 2019).

All the social media engagement from police forces about their commitment to reducing disability hate crime has been so reassuring. Obviously they have to prioritise chastising women for being “untoward about paedophiles” but if they can get around to investigating disabled people being violently assaulted after that I’m sure everyone would be very appreciative.

Frankly it’s a bit embarrassing the way people won’t shut up about July being Disability Pride Month. It’s getting so commercialised, all the brands producing merchandise & sticking the flag up… The only good thing is how focused the NHS has been on the needs of disabled people. Really centring them this month.

Frankly all this celebrating & centring disabled people has been exhausting as well as exhaustive. I’m almost relieved it’s nearly over for another year…

SapphosRock · 27/07/2022 18:56

The woman was probably homophobic and / or transphobic but I'm not sure what that has to do with feminism.

crosstalk · 27/07/2022 18:46

This sounds very odd. I am sorry your DD had to put up with an abusive woman at the till .. and let that woman complain. Like most GC people I have no problem with inclusive except when it affects women's rights.

ZaraSizeMedium · 27/07/2022 18:45

Surely by now the shop should have taken this pister down and should now be displaying a disability pride poster - given that it’s Disability Pride Month.

Maybe your daughter can ask when that poster is going up? I’m sure they do have a poster to put up, they just “haven’t got round” to putting it up yet.

RoseslnTheHospital · 27/07/2022 18:43

No one here can answer on behalf of the woman in the shop.

As a general rule, people who rant at young (often female) shop assistants about issues that are not to do with a customer transaction are being unreasonable. Decisions about shop displays are made by managers or instructed from central management. But you must surely already know that.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 27/07/2022 18:40

Yet another reason to take the new Oxfam with a pinch of salt. Presumably the starving millions are more concerned with putting food in the their bellies than worrying about misgendering. Oxfam, on thé other hand……

darlingdodo · 27/07/2022 18:38

Surely if they're welcoming everyone a quick 'Everyone welcome' is all that's needed on a poster.

BlackForestCake · 27/07/2022 18:38

Actually I was passing an Oxfam shop and saw the poster in question. I didn’t go in an complain, but it made me feel unwelcome. Feed that back.

BlackForestCake · 27/07/2022 18:36

Other than GCs and TRAs nobody even understands what this they/them stuff is all about. So if somebody objects to it, they’re most probably GC.

Dreamwhisper · 27/07/2022 18:22

Honestly you can't pay people like that too much mind - you can't argue with stupid as they say.