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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Misogyny against Liz Truss

172 replies

PersonaNonGarter · 24/07/2022 13:31

Is anyone else seeing endless misogyny against Liz Truss painting her as ‘thick’ or ‘stupid’? While there’s an acceptance that Rishi is a clever nerd?

I am finding it quite disconcerting. Both she and Rishi Sunak have PPE degrees from Oxford. Yet so many memes about her being dumb. I haven’t seen any attacking Rishi’s intelligence.

Obviously, many many people disagree with them both politically. But that’s not what I am talking about. This is about a specific sort of criticism that really seems directed at her as a woman.

OP posts:
BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 24/07/2022 18:17

saraclara · 24/07/2022 17:49

I absolutely agree. Its way too easy to look for misogyny in everything.

Yes, Liz Truss got an Oxbridge PPE degree, so theoretically she should be intelligent. But she is incredibly inarticulate, does not come across as a leader, and yes, does appear at least, stupid.
That's nothing to do with her sex. Every politician gets this stuff. And frankly, she deserves what's coming her way.

In appalled that we are left with these two. I really am.

i have no strong feelings on this, I'm here to be persuaded.

but I do find the posters who've got nothing beyond 'She's thick' quite interesting

I think we all accept that we operate in a sexist society. if you violently dislike or despise a woman but can't articulate why, it's probably a good idea to examine what's driving your viewpoint.

I thought the Kemi Badenoch thread was similar. lots of people happy to vociferously state that she's 'scary', but seemingly getting quite sensitive when asked to explain why they thought that

GreenLunchBox · 24/07/2022 18:17

Truss is for people who liked Boris but wished he was a bit more stupid

fizzywat · 24/07/2022 18:11

Regarding image and bows, I am reminded of Angela Merkel. Whatever your views on her, she was a very successful Chancellor. she swerved comments on her appearance by deliberately and consistently wearing a " trouser suit". She never varied from that and therefore her politics and policies were more important than her appearance ever was.

It should never have to be like that, everyone should be able to wear what they wish (within decency laws), but she showed how making her appearance bland led to little or no commentary on her dress sense or the fact that she is a woman.

But she was clever, bright and on the ball. Not sure about either of the current two candidates before us. I think Truss is being played in order to govern during what appears to be a horrible time coming down the tracks, while someone else is in the wings waiting to pounce. Now who could that be I wonder?

Petrolordiesel · 24/07/2022 18:06

jgw1 · 24/07/2022 17:30

In a red wall area, and the school was not very good I hear, due to government underfunding.

Roundhay is not and never has been red wall
She had a Tory MP growing up!

saraclara · 24/07/2022 17:49

Oestrogelsmuggler · 24/07/2022 15:30

I think this post raises interesting questions about how any of us with strongly held views can be tempted into being tribal about everything and apply criticism without properly thinking things through.

I am a feminist. Misogyny is ubiquitous, insidious and awful, and yes, female politicians still get judged by their outfits more than I'd like.

Because I'd like them to be judged by the quality of their ideas, and by their behaviour.

On both counts, Truss deserves criticism.

We do feminism no favours by blaming everything on misogyny.

I absolutely agree. Its way too easy to look for misogyny in everything.

Yes, Liz Truss got an Oxbridge PPE degree, so theoretically she should be intelligent. But she is incredibly inarticulate, does not come across as a leader, and yes, does appear at least, stupid.
That's nothing to do with her sex. Every politician gets this stuff. And frankly, she deserves what's coming her way.

In appalled that we are left with these two. I really am.

AgnestaVipers · 24/07/2022 17:49

@GottaLoveTheCold , gotta say, you don't sound keen on him. 😬Glad to read he's XH, not DH.

MaudeYoung · 24/07/2022 17:47

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

GottaLoveTheCold · 24/07/2022 17:43

Ah - Agnesta - unfortunately my XH wasn’t or isn’t from a privileged background. Father a labourer, mum in admin, he was brought up in social housing and he went to a comprehensive. He was academically clever (not insanely so though, he got a C at maths GCSE) and in his particular case, his background really worked for him rather than against as there was no one really like him there. Not quite a poster boy for “look! They’re not all Eton!” But close enough. I don’t know how much he loved it either but it set him up for life. As long as someone else can remember all basic things for him, like how to change a duvet cover or make rice…

his Inability to understand someone else’s point of view in a discussion “you’re wrong and you know you are, you’re just saying this to annoy me” as well as his unwillingness to learn new things (why won’t you let me show you how to make couscous), just made me realise that Oxbridge genuinely is not a measure of someone’s intelligence. It just is “book learning”.

antifascist · 24/07/2022 17:43

MaudeYoung · 24/07/2022 17:28

@antifascist Do you have a link to the full original document please before the edit was made? Thank you.

Apologies heres the link
humanists.uk/2022/07/22/norway-denmark-and-human-rights-groups-challenge-uk-over-abortion-rollback/

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 24/07/2022 17:42

1dayatatime · 24/07/2022 17:38

thank you, that's helpful and much more the kind of post I expect to find in FWR (i.e. evidenced). That does indeed display a woeful lack of judgement

antifascist · 24/07/2022 17:41

MaudeYoung · 24/07/2022 17:28

@antifascist Do you have a link to the full original document please before the edit was made? Thank you.

I stopped posting links when people said they couldn't be bothered to open them. You can google if you wish.

Sloebluewalls · 24/07/2022 17:39

Sexism is rife in politics. Saying that Truss would be a disaster for social care which has been in spiralling deeper and deeper into serious crisis since the Tory party took over. At least Rishi had a plan to tackle the social care crisis and was taking steps in the right direction. Truss will throw the disabled and elderly under a bus

1dayatatime · 24/07/2022 17:38

One example of why Liz Truss would be an appalling PM.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60544838.amp

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/liz-truss-slapped-down-chief-26399326.amp

Floisme · 24/07/2022 17:36

The thread is not about backing Truss, or at least it shouldn't be. Challenging misogyny if and when you see it does not mean you back the politician concerned. But thank you anyway antifascist - I couldn't have asked for a better demonstration of my point.

MarshaBradyo · 24/07/2022 17:35

PersonaNonGarter · 24/07/2022 17:26

To all those calling her thick, over-educated etc - Liz Truss went to comprehensive school. (You can look it up).

I thought that too, not sure why Eton was mentioned by pp

It’s easy to see she was academic enough to get in

Even if people don’t agree with her policies or think her communication style isn’t the best - fine to say either but I agree re thick probably more suited to AIBU or general dislike women get often in professional life than FWR section

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 24/07/2022 17:34

MaudeYoung · 24/07/2022 17:26

Isn't politics more about the skill of pragmatism that needs to be applied to deliver the agreed manifesto upon which an election is won? I am not sure how much having a superior intellect succeeds in that context.

yes, i'm wondering if all the people writing pithy one liners to explain how thick they think she is translate that into a view on her ability to run the country

I mean she's demonstrably not academically thick, so leaving that aside, what's the evidence of her thickness that makes her particularly stupid and unsuitable as prime minister compared to Rishi Sunak who is her direct comparator here?

1dayatatime · 24/07/2022 17:33

@Oestrogelsmuggler

"We do feminism no favours by blaming everything on misogyny."

+++

Exactly.

jgw1 · 24/07/2022 17:30

PersonaNonGarter · 24/07/2022 17:26

To all those calling her thick, over-educated etc - Liz Truss went to comprehensive school. (You can look it up).

In a red wall area, and the school was not very good I hear, due to government underfunding.

MaudeYoung · 24/07/2022 17:28

@antifascist Do you have a link to the full original document please before the edit was made? Thank you.

WhereYouLeftIt · 24/07/2022 17:28

Tallisker · 24/07/2022 13:54

Also seeing people referring to her as Truss, surname only, but referring to Rishi Sunak as Rishi. Seems unfair

If anyone just talked about 'Liz' though, I'd think they were talking about the Queen!

PersonaNonGarter · 24/07/2022 17:26

To all those calling her thick, over-educated etc - Liz Truss went to comprehensive school. (You can look it up).

OP posts:
MaudeYoung · 24/07/2022 17:26

Isn't politics more about the skill of pragmatism that needs to be applied to deliver the agreed manifesto upon which an election is won? I am not sure how much having a superior intellect succeeds in that context.

antifascist · 24/07/2022 17:26

Over 20 human rights, pro-choice, and international aid groups, and the Norwegian and Danish Governments, have called on the UK Government to reverse its decision to arbitrarily strip ‘sexual and reproductive health and rights’ and ‘bodily autonomy’ from an international human rights statement it – and 22 other countries – signed only two weeks ago.

Liz Truss is foreign secretary

‘Norway and Denmark have approached the UK and the Netherlands, who are the chair and co-chair respectively of the International Religious Freedom or Belief Alliance (IRFBA), to enquire about and protest against the substantive changes to the statement and the way the changes were made. Norway has yet to make a decision on being a signatory to the amended version of the statement.’

Furthermore, an array of influential charities and rights groups have signed a joint letter asking the UK Government to explain its reasoning behind the shock move and to reverse its decision immediately. The letter was organised by Humanists UK, which first spotted the change. Signatories include Amnesty International UK, Human Rights Watch, ActionAid UK, BPAS, MSI Reproductive Choices, Liberty, Fawcett, Brook, the End Violence Against Women Coalition, Article 19, and Maternity Action.

They write to the Foreign Secretary, Liz Truss:

‘We are writing to you with serious concern about the deletion of references to ‘sexual and reproductive health and rights’ and ‘bodily autonomy’ from the UK-organised ‘Statement on freedom of religion or belief and gender equality’. We urge you to reverse this move, and hope you could explain why the change happened in the first place.

‘As Professor Ahmed Shaheed, the UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Religion or Belief, has said in response to the changes: “Claims that freedom of religion or belief can be invoked to deny women and girls the exercise and enjoyment of their sexual and reproductive health rights have no foundation in human rights. Rather, such claims must be rejected as representing intolerant and patriarchal attitudes that deny the equal rights of men and women to freedom of religion or belief. Such claims especially ignore that freedom of religion or belief also guarantees to women the right to bodily autonomy and conscientious choice.”

‘At a time when abortion provision around the world is under serious threat, due to the reversal of Roe v Wade, it has never been more important for the UK Government to stand up for sexual and reproductive health and rights and bodily autonomy. We note that the latest British Social Attitudes Survey to ask indicates that less than 5% of the UK population oppose access to abortion in all circumstances. In addition, 22 countries had signed up to the statement before revision – a similar number to those signing the other Ministerial statements – which is further indication that there is no sound reason for these amendments. We urge that they be reversed immediately.’

She's the mysognist. Imagine calling yourselves feminist and backing this woman.

Still strong on toilets I believe. And that's what really matters,

AgnestaVipers · 24/07/2022 17:15

I should add that the issue is the tribal, as opposed to heterodox, thinking required of politicians. Helps no one.

puffyisgood · 24/07/2022 17:14

she's no genius but is obviously of well above average intelligence given that she went to Oxford from a comp (albeit from an upper middle class professional family). sunak has been preparing for this leadership contest for a very long time, his wife and his gazillions no doubt paying for a fair sized army of advisors and preppers, I think it's very likely that the unpleasantness about truss will be turned up several notches this week.

at the risk of stating the obvious there's definitely a strong element of misogyny in political reporting Dianne abbot went to Oxbridge from a comp but you'd have thought she was a lobotomy case from the way she got written about. priti patel isn't bright, this is doubly true of Nadine dorries, but when he was around Gavin Williamson, who's at least as thick as either, got a much easier ride.