Judith Butler in The New Statesman

The decision did not attach any conditions to the abortion, unlike the laws in Europe that enjoy widespread public support. Partial-birth abortions without medical indications, and abortion to the full term, do not exist in Europe, and were utilized by the Right in gathering public support for the bans that are now taking place in some states

I think that's right and I also think some on the Left/ some feminists didn't help their cause by the unqualified "as early as possible, as late as necessary" mantra without any definition of what "necessary" meant- beyond "no longer want to be pregnant".

It's all very well saying , "well women don't change their mind just on a whim" when that was what you're arguing for.

I agree with you nepeta, that some of this terrible situation is due to notably higher religiosity in US, hence religious institutions having a bigger influence on policy.

But how is that different to Ireland, where the abortion rights were won by a popular consensus?

My thoughts, unformed and under-informed though they are, is that RvW decision, is actually at fault.

The decision did not attach any conditions to the abortion, unlike the laws in Europe that enjoy widespread public support. Partial-birth abortions without medical indications, and abortion to the full term, do not exist in Europe, and were utilized by the Right in gathering public support for the bans that are now taking place in some states.

And another reason, as ever, is the partisan nature of US politics and increased polarization, partially due to the Left appearing unhinged on race and gender.

Whatever the reasons though, I genuinely think US women are not going to get the abortion rights any time soon, as their defenders on the Left are out of their mind, and the public will not buy the whole package.

Perhaps the pro-abortion rights movement could rise above the party politics and separate the issue from the Democratic Party to win public support, but I see no signs of that taking place, which is incredibly sad.

It is a truth universally acknowledged that a woman in possession of an opinion must be in want of a system of government marked by centralization of authority, Eresh.

Careful mirax or people will accuse you of being a fascist.

Same UK police that did nothing at all about those girls raped in Telford or Rochdale for decades? Figures.

Fair enough, Bernard.

I have to say, I'm always hoping you'll intervene at an inopportune moment so i can say 'Not now, Bernard'.

Now is not that time, though.

yes, I mean the curtailment of women's rights is demonstrably only vigorously pursued in some states. Maybe the US is better thought of as two countries, one christian fundamentalist country, and one more closely aligned with western liberal values?

not sure where that gets the women who live in Fundy USA though

actually @LK1972 we taught 8chan all they know. We are 12chan. Fear us. I do feel a bit sorry for @antifascist . How lonely and sad must your life be that all you can think of to do is go on a site where women are having discussions and throw insults instead of contributing in an intelligent way.

@antifascist I think your time might be better spent installing internet restrictions on your mum's laptop, in case she stumbles upon those horrific far-right websites you're so concerned about.

You just never know, as a woman her mind is weak and easily swayed, what if she watches Jordan Peterson and doesn't think he's a fascist, how will you cope?

As to this board, you're too late, it's practically 8chan in here, too far gone I'm afraid

Why was RvW always so controversial? What do you think makes US so unique amongst first world countries that it now lacks universal abortion provision? And what are the 'progressives' doing about it, except for calling everyone who disagrees a fascist, like JB?

I know this is not for me or for the purpose of being answered, but I have though about this a lot, and it certainly is linked to another aspect in which the US is rather unique among first world countries:

Its religiousity, and especially the very large number of quite fundamentalist Christians within both the evangelical and the Catholic churches.

That religiousity differs by state and in lots of ways the US is a melange of quite different 'countries' with different demographics, belief systems and levels of economic development. More like Europe as a continent than like any European country.

seriously @PearlClutch , in the words of Peggy Mitchell, 'he's not worth it'

most of his posts are simply stuff he wishes were true. he's just here to piss you off.

wtf?

Who are you calling a 'fascist'?

You are saying women should not discuss Jordan Peterson? Do you have a list of approved topics for women to talk about?

As for abusive - you think it's totally fine to call women on here 'fascists'? To sneer at our age? To call us racist? How bloody dare you.

'Being untoward about paedophiles' .....?

And this is a bad thing because.......?

<polishes 'nasty piece of work' badge>

it's made from real anthrax

the idea that you can use words to create your reality seems to me to be the worst kind of victim blaming

are people in terrible situations, those living in the Calais Jungle for example, or victims of trafficking, simply displaying insufficient gumption and not defining their reality correctly?

KJK just had the police round. Accused of a hate crime for 'being untoward about paedophiles'.

Now @antifascist , your posts are normally just amusing, but claiming racism on this thread is too far.

You are not doing your cause any good when everyone can see you're lying.

@Boxowine I'm sorry for what is happening to women needing abortion in US, and I wish you luck with getting abortion rights encoded in law, as they should be.

I do worry that the tactics and ideologies used by the left, in US, and clearly supported by you, will not achieve it. You cannot win hearts and minds by smearing your opponents as fascists with no proof, it just doesn't work, and that concerns me.

Why was RvW always so controversial? What do you think makes US so unique amongst first world countries that it now lacks universal abortion provision? And what are the 'progressives' doing about it, except for calling everyone who disagrees a fascist, like JB?

Relentless ad hominem. You are the MN incarnation of those antifa blokes in balaclavas who think it edgy to shout over women.

i see the typing speeds up in direct proportion to the fury

and likewise the spelling deteriorates

Out in the average street, however, it's going to come up hard against reality and nobody's non-binary identity is going to be much of a protection against rape, dv, or sexist abuse.

Aye.

I don’t think you’ve answered my question, @antifascist. What differentiates you from any misogynist?

You made the mistake of asking very reasonable questions that Boxowine had no answer to, hence that rather desperate flaying of an entire army of strawmen. Boxowine needs better deflection technique.

Lijke fascists.
Like Jordan Peterson

repeatedly post link to far rioght websites, far right influencers, and far right talking points.

like right wing members of the Conservative Party.

Dislike references to the Conservatives deporting black people.

Make abusive remarks to the age, looks intelligence of opponents

There are several members of this board who are really nasty pieces of work.