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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tide turning

112 replies

dropthevipers · 21/07/2022 22:58

Given that it seems clear that gender woo is being called out all over the place, to the extent that 'be kind' and 'no debate' are the deadest of dead ducks, how long will it be before we can look back at this time and say'what the fuck was that about? '. Five years? Ten years? Never?

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StopStartStop · 22/07/2022 05:50

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This.

RedToothBrush · 22/07/2022 05:41

I think that part of the problem here is globalisation and whats happening in the US, Canada and NZ.

Social media is largely US led and they are in the process of having a full on cultural war over women's rights and diversity in general. Plus its controlled by giantic health corporation with a vested long term interest which will seek to protect itself from legal challenge.

The significant part here is control of the supreme court though.

What I think will happen is the court will rule that states have the right to make rules on all sorts at an individual level. This will cause more authoritarianism in both blue and red states, which is untenable in terms of staying united as a country with one government and leader...

Control of english language social media is really important in this context. The Elon Musk v Twitter debacle is highly relevant to this. I've never thought Musk was serious about buying twitter. I think he wants control and power and in someways its more useful to him, to mess twitter about and disrupt internally whilst making a point about free speech (who i dont think Musk really believes in. Musk believes in Musks ego).

In this sense what we do in the uk in legal terms will remain somewhat marginalised for sometime.

Even if we come to our senses, we will have to endure the political and legal meltdown in countries that have taken it further already. This is problematic because of how tribal and entrenched us politics along religious grounds has become. Even if we legally put sex and gender back into their boxes in terms of definition, how do we control this on a global social media platform? We cannot block all thoughts and opinions from the US.

There isn't a sane way out for the US. Its one catastrophic meltdown that has decades to play out in court particularly because big pharma and healthcare have a lot of money riding on exploitation.

Its more akin to the prescription drugs scandal that has led to addiction and then onto illegal drug taking because culturally no one says no to the healthcare companies. Or challenges to the tobacco companies that took decades.

In terms of politics within the uk, I think it is slowly coming to a head and sanity will prevail here much sooner than other places, with less of the extreme tribalism. Purely because we aren't a nation of religious nutcases versus pseudo-religious nutcases.

As more stuff plays out the general population who aren't invested emotionally will eyeroll more at the absurdity.

But there's going to be a continued background noise and influence from blue loons in the US.

Ultimately this is about authoritarianism versus liberalism and globalisation and the impact of social media on democracy freedoms and idea. We still have a long way to go in how that plays out and a lot of that will rest on political control of the courts, which politicians are compromised due to their ownership and investment in big pharma and capitalist oligarchical control of social media.

So not down to the regular person on the street and political consensus building...

It will eventually implode cos its doing harm, but the us is particularly slow in resolving its shit in this area.

nepeta · 22/07/2022 03:19

I spot differences on Twitter in that there are many more gender-critical comments than in the past, though I don't know if they are less policed or actually now more frequent.

My guess is that it will take a long time for the tide to turn and much damage will happen before that point. Some of it to the bodies of the young people who later regret their transitioning, but also a lot to feminism, as we are currently seeing the return of sexist gender roles and norms (even short hair on women is now nonbinary or trans) and as we are losing many of the legal protections which are based on sex. Misogyny is more visible than it has been for several decades.

But on the other side, real feminism seems to be rising, and women in all sorts of countries are waking up. So who knows? Maybe we will be pleasantly surprised and rationality returns sooner rather than later.

FictionalCharacter · 22/07/2022 03:04

@UWhatNow I agree. One day a generation of women will realise what they allowed to happen, when years of Being Kind bites them in the bum and they twig what they’ve lost compared to the previous generation. Unfortunately a lot of damage will happen before the next backlash. Then it will be a new version of the battles in the 60s and 70s against overt sexism and discrimination, being called dolly birds and having our backsides slapped by strangers, being barred from a whole load of jobs and professions. This time the battle will be against everything that’s meant to be for women being stolen and colonised by men.

Cattenberg · 22/07/2022 00:00

Maybe Truss or Sunak will clarify the Equalities Act and its exemptions. I really do hope so. Lots of companies and organisations seem confused and are flip-flopping desperately to try to avoid being sued.

LovinglifeAF · 21/07/2022 23:58

The NHS decision I mean

Newsernames · 21/07/2022 23:58

@Etinoxaurus we had our mandatory training last week and the midwife running it referred to “women and birthing people” throughout and WABP on all her slides. The IDVA just referred to women and only had women written on her slides. Difference was noticeable.

LovinglifeAF · 21/07/2022 23:58

i believe that was wrong in law. Hopefully it will be appealed.

LovinglifeAF · 21/07/2022 23:56

I think it’ll be a while when we still have teenage girls declaring themselves “trans”, people like us trying to stand up for women’s rights being called Terfs, but hopefully the tide is at least starting to turn.

Etinoxaurus · 21/07/2022 23:54

That NHS ruling was depressing.
Refreshingly I've noticed fewer vawg workers with pronouns than general third sector workers. It’ll be interesting to see if/ as pp remove them.

UWhatNow · 21/07/2022 23:51

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bellinisurge · 21/07/2022 23:14

Ten years at least. When teens like my daughter who roll their eyes and shrug their shoulders at the new religion become adults. And are no doubt perplexed at the next mods/rockers punks/hippies goths/poodle rockers divide.
And there will have been a slew of court cases around the world.