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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I am embracing virtue signalling pronouns in emails

909 replies

MsFogi · 21/07/2022 18:25

I have realised I have made too many assumptions about gender over the years. I had always assumed that Paul (name changed of course) in my company was a man simply on the basis of his appearance (well over 6 foot, well built, big beard, low voice that only someone with an Adam's apple and whose balls have dropped could have). Imagine my relief to find that I have not been misgendering him for over a decade because he has helpfully added his pronouns to his email auto signature - they are he/him/his. There is no company diktat to add pronouns on emails so clearly this is important to Paul or maybe he has been misgendered recently.

So, I thought I would ensure that Paul was not offended on a Teams meeting this afternoon and kicked off the meeting by asking everyone to note that Paul's pronouns are he/him/his and that given that he has stated these that everyone please be sensitive to ensuring that they use them. No one said anything so I think they all took it on board, no one misgendered Paul and I like to think that his move to include his pronouns at work has been embraced in my meeting. Maybe as a result others that attended the meeting will add theirs to their auto signatures too.

OP posts:
WordleGummidge · 21/07/2022 20:01

Sounds very unprofessional to me, singling out an individual. Could be construed as bullying in the workplace. If I were in Paul's shoes in that meeting I'd have felt very uncomfortable. It's not something to joke about.

Fixyourself · 21/07/2022 20:01

Thank god you cleared that up. Paul must be so fed up with being misgendered up until the email revelation.
Paula
she/her

925XX · 21/07/2022 19:50

Everyone is fucking brainwashed!

Kanaloa · 21/07/2022 19:50

frazzledasarock · 21/07/2022 19:48

Why is stating someone’s pronouns, making them look silly?

why if it’s important to Paul that everyone know his pronouns, is it mocking him if OP ensures all those present at the meeting are aware of his pronouns and do not inadvertently use a wrong pronoun for him?

I don’t see the alleged unprofessionalism.

OP ensured everyone present knew Paul’s pronouns as it’s clearly very important to Paul. She did not laugh, she did not belittle him. She repeated what he wrote on his email signature to ensure his wishes to be known by the correct pronoun was communicated to those present.

why is this belittling or mocking?

I’ve already explained why I find it to be unprofessional. Obviously op didn’t find it unprofessional, and finds it just as professional to post it online for a little round of congratulations. That’s her decision. For me, it’s unprofessional.

frazzledasarock · 21/07/2022 19:48

Why is stating someone’s pronouns, making them look silly?

why if it’s important to Paul that everyone know his pronouns, is it mocking him if OP ensures all those present at the meeting are aware of his pronouns and do not inadvertently use a wrong pronoun for him?

I don’t see the alleged unprofessionalism.

OP ensured everyone present knew Paul’s pronouns as it’s clearly very important to Paul. She did not laugh, she did not belittle him. She repeated what he wrote on his email signature to ensure his wishes to be known by the correct pronoun was communicated to those present.

why is this belittling or mocking?

925XX · 21/07/2022 19:48

Dear bloody God! Stop the fucking world I have had a belly full!!

bellac11 · 21/07/2022 19:46

I hate CIS, I do find that really offensive

mrshoho · 21/07/2022 19:45

No matter how much we are force fed the usefulness of pronouns I will never see any need for them personally or for 98% of the rest of the population for whom it is bloody stating the obvious. And yes seeing 6ft Paul he/him/his does make me snigger. If the people whose pronouns are not obvious then by all means state them proudly. Just don't expect the rest of us to join in.

velvetvixen · 21/07/2022 19:43

IcakethereforeIam · 21/07/2022 19:39

The CoE could get in on this, could be a new revenue stream! Or Stonewall. 'I now pronouns you "he and him"'.

Excellent idea!

GibbonsGoatsGibbons · 21/07/2022 19:40

😂
Ask everyone if they would like to declare their star signs next time

IcakethereforeIam · 21/07/2022 19:39

The CoE could get in on this, could be a new revenue stream! Or Stonewall. 'I now pronouns you "he and him"'.

brookstar · 21/07/2022 19:38

I bloody love this 😂

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 21/07/2022 19:37

MrsRuggles · 21/07/2022 19:01

Maybe this has been misunderstood, or people are being deliberately obtuse. Indicating one's pronouns in email signatures is not to ensure that one is not misgendered. For cis people with names not clearly of one gender or another it does have that advantage. What your burly chap was quite likely doing was showing his support of trans people who are more often misgendered. It normalises the practice. Good for Paul.

It costs 'Paul' and other natal males nothing to do this 'allyship' stuff. As I have already posted, on the other hand, it would be foolish for a female member of staff to draw attention to her sex as she would very likely be treated worse than male colleagues as as result.

Why is it OK to pressure women into doing something against their interests? How about saying others should show support for women by refusing to declare their sex so in email communications at least everyone is treated the same?

FOJN · 21/07/2022 19:36

she has made a point of making him look silly in front of a group by pointing out the obvious, that he is male

I don't think Paul needed the assistance of OP to make himself look silly, that was all he own work.

bellac11 · 21/07/2022 19:34

Kanaloa · 21/07/2022 19:08

Plus on top of that then posting it for kudos makes it clear op was not simply trying to be understanding of his pronouns.

What is there to 'understand'

Its like someone putting their star sign after their name.

I havent found many men putting these on, its mainly women where I work and in multi agency communications like schools and our legal department.

VerveClique · 21/07/2022 19:30

Even if Paul likes to be referred to by others as he/him/his, how can we know what Paul’s gender is? Maybe he should have specifically told everyone that as well, just in case. There should really be no assumptions on this kind of thing.

Kanaloa · 21/07/2022 19:28

Tania64 · 21/07/2022 19:26

I think Kanaloa needs to get a SOH!

Oh yes, I see. ‘It’s just a joke! It’s only bantz! Can’t you take a joke/don’t you have a sense of humour?’ But I guess for me laughing AT someone is just never funny. Especially when you’re their manager. Plus it was quite literally not funny in any other way - it wasn’t witty or clever or amusing. It was passive aggressive and mean.

Tania64 · 21/07/2022 19:26

Kanaloa · 21/07/2022 18:46

Plus I think if you’re a manager or senior staff you’ve behaved a bit unprofessionally by deliberately embarrassing your staff. If you don’t want pronouns using or it’s against company policy then you need to address it appropriately with ‘please do not include anything other than appropriate company email signature’ not point someone out and try to be funny by embarrassing them when for all you know they’re just trying to keep up/follow what they think needs to be done.

I think Kanaloa needs to get a SOH!

Wouldloveanother · 21/07/2022 19:25

Legend! That’s a brilliant idea!

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 21/07/2022 19:24

MrsRuggles · 21/07/2022 19:01

Maybe this has been misunderstood, or people are being deliberately obtuse. Indicating one's pronouns in email signatures is not to ensure that one is not misgendered. For cis people with names not clearly of one gender or another it does have that advantage. What your burly chap was quite likely doing was showing his support of trans people who are more often misgendered. It normalises the practice. Good for Paul.

Please, don't use the term cis. It is objectionable in its assumptions and misgenders me and many other people too. If you are serious about believing people when they tell you their preferred identity you will cease to use the term, here if nowhere else.

I have a name that is used by people of both sexes. Everyone refers to me by my name in emails and to my face.

Years ago I worked as a support specialist in a very niche area and all the clients across the many arabic, muslim countries I provided support for called me Mr. Even on the phone after hearing my voice, or after meeting me in person. My sex is really obvious then, I am very large of boob. I didn't die. I didn't feel that I didn't exist. I understood that Mr was intended as an honorific, a nod to the fact that I was the expert, they the ones seeking guidance.

I didn't mind that but I do vehemently object to the term cis. The first was understandable, the latter is you and others like you shoving your agenda into my life. No Thank You!

surreygirl1987 · 21/07/2022 19:22

Plus I think if you’re a manager or senior staff you’ve behaved a bit unprofessionally by deliberately embarrassing your staff. If you don’t want pronouns using or it’s against company policy then you need to address it appropriately with ‘please do not include anything other than appropriate company email signature’ not point someone out and try to be funny by embarrassing them when for all you know they’re just trying to keep up/follow what they think needs to be done.
Agreed. Sounds like you were mocking his use of pronouns? This sounds like something a deeply unpleasant colleague of mind would do actually.

StillWeRise · 21/07/2022 19:22

to all those telling off the OP
Paul decided to do this- without any prompting from his managers- what did he expect to happen?
If Paul was new, or very junior or otherwise at a disadvantage- or even if he had a feminine presentation/physique then OP may have been unkind.
Really if grown ups choose to engage in this nonsense they have to expect to be taken at face value.

Ndd135632 · 21/07/2022 19:21

@Kanaloa from now on I will indeed then state my race, nationality and sexuality just so you are 100% sure. Why is it only only gender these new ‘rules’ apply to?

HipTightOnions · 21/07/2022 19:20

Making a big thing of it to point out that it’s silly isn’t professional behaviour from a manager.

It sounds as though OP played it with a straight bat.

Whether the other meeting attendees saw this as a dig, a reasonable response, or completely incomprehensible, would depend on their position on the issue.

It's a neutral way of bringing the issue to people's attention.

mrshoho · 21/07/2022 19:19

I'm also offended at CIS. Please don't. I'm a woman no more no less.