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Original poster

I am embracing virtue signalling pronouns in emails

909 replies

MsFogi · 21/07/2022 18:25

I have realised I have made too many assumptions about gender over the years. I had always assumed that Paul (name changed of course) in my company was a man simply on the basis of his appearance (well over 6 foot, well built, big beard, low voice that only someone with an Adam's apple and whose balls have dropped could have). Imagine my relief to find that I have not been misgendering him for over a decade because he has helpfully added his pronouns to his email auto signature - they are he/him/his. There is no company diktat to add pronouns on emails so clearly this is important to Paul or maybe he has been misgendered recently.

So, I thought I would ensure that Paul was not offended on a Teams meeting this afternoon and kicked off the meeting by asking everyone to note that Paul's pronouns are he/him/his and that given that he has stated these that everyone please be sensitive to ensuring that they use them. No one said anything so I think they all took it on board, no one misgendered Paul and I like to think that his move to include his pronouns at work has been embraced in my meeting. Maybe as a result others that attended the meeting will add theirs to their auto signatures too.

OP posts:
FlirtsWithRhinos · 21/07/2022 21:44

At my place, most senior managers declare pronouns. Otherwise very few people do, apart from those in HR. It's obvious there has been some edict initiated by HR then delivered from on high to certain levels of management strongly suggesting the use of pronouns.

Ironically this has resulted in the embarrassing own goal of highlighting that almost all our senior managers are he/hims.

It's particularly obvious when there are large zoom calls because names with pronouns tend to stand out visually, so the effect is "he/him - manager, he/him - manager, he/him - manager, ooh she/her! oh, HR. He/him - manager..."

GoodJanetBadJanet · 21/07/2022 21:42

it's the intent isn't it. Of course neither of us was at that meeting so can't be sure, but based on the OPs posts on this thread the intent did not seem to be to make Paul feel included.
Exactly, comes across as the opposite.

WordleGummidge · 21/07/2022 21:35

@Terfydactyl it's the intent isn't it. Of course neither of us was at that meeting so can't be sure, but based on the OPs posts on this thread the intent did not seem to be to make Paul feel included. If that was the intent then I jumped to the wrong conclusion.

VerveClique · 21/07/2022 21:27

Should we all note our age, whether we have any disabilities, our race, our natal sex, our religion and/or any mainstream beliefs that we have, on every email and at the beginning of every meeting, just so that everyone knows what they are? What could possibly go wrong?!

Should I also mention my blood group? Natural hair colour? Favourite place to go on holiday? Worst childhood memory? What my parents did for a living? Where I went to school? I mean, why not?!

MagpiePi · 21/07/2022 21:27

boomoohoo · 21/07/2022 21:11

Because Paul likely didn't ask the op to do this. sounds like she took it upon herself. If it was important to him he could let everyone know himself couldn't he.

Look I don't like the pronouns thing either but I agree this sounds a bit bullying, deliberately embarrassing Paul when he most likely just wanted to be doing the right thing.. I wince and judge every time I see people do it but it's their choice 🤷

Maybe Paul should have also stated that he didn't want anyone to use his pronouns?

So now we have to know without asking, whether people actually want us to use their stated pronouns, or if we're not supposed to because it is mocking them?

Is this the next level of 'I'm the most special and interesting' Top Trumps?

AhaLyn · 21/07/2022 21:12

He probably doesn’t care does he, like people that put a picture of the Ukraine flag on their profile. But good for you.

boomoohoo · 21/07/2022 21:11

Because Paul likely didn't ask the op to do this. sounds like she took it upon herself. If it was important to him he could let everyone know himself couldn't he.

Look I don't like the pronouns thing either but I agree this sounds a bit bullying, deliberately embarrassing Paul when he most likely just wanted to be doing the right thing.. I wince and judge every time I see people do it but it's their choice 🤷

AnnieSnap · 21/07/2022 21:08

Brilliant! 👍

hallouminatus · 21/07/2022 21:05

PaddlingInMyPool · 21/07/2022 20:55

I work with a guy who uses he/him on his emails and in meetings. He’s a bald, paunchy 50-something bloke with a name along the lines of Trevor.

I always feel like saying ‘Well knock me down with a feather, Trevor…you’re a bloke?!’

It doesn’t help that he’s incredibly patronising and is always banging on about ‘gender’ and ‘BAME’ even though he’s often the only white person and man in a meeting.

Fucking Trevor.

Knock me down with a feather, Clever Trevor
Widebrows wonder whether Clever Trevor's clever
Either have they got, nor neither haven't not
Got no right to make a clot out of Trevor

Terfydactyl · 21/07/2022 21:02

WordleGummidge · 21/07/2022 20:01

Sounds very unprofessional to me, singling out an individual. Could be construed as bullying in the workplace. If I were in Paul's shoes in that meeting I'd have felt very uncomfortable. It's not something to joke about.

So then why are meetings very very often started with the pronoun round?
Why are you asked for your pronouns at many incidences throughout the day.
If you sign up for a course, you are asked, if you want to go to an event where name badges are used, you are asked pronouns. Fucks sake Facebook wanted me to add mine, Facebook, who gives a shit on Facebook?

catwomando · 21/07/2022 20:58

Brilliant. I love you.

PaddlingInMyPool · 21/07/2022 20:55

I work with a guy who uses he/him on his emails and in meetings. He’s a bald, paunchy 50-something bloke with a name along the lines of Trevor.

I always feel like saying ‘Well knock me down with a feather, Trevor…you’re a bloke?!’

It doesn’t help that he’s incredibly patronising and is always banging on about ‘gender’ and ‘BAME’ even though he’s often the only white person and man in a meeting.

Fucking Trevor.

Babdoc · 21/07/2022 20:54

You really can’t win against transactivists, OP.
Refuse to use pronouns = transphobic.
Use pronouns = workplace bullying.
A woman’s place is in the wrong, as usual.
I can’t wait for this nonsense to die out, whenever people finally rebel against being forced to participate in the gender religion of others.

hallouminatus · 21/07/2022 20:50

... note that Paul's pronouns are he/him/his and that given that he has stated these that everyone please be sensitive to ensuring that they use them.

I was confused for a moment why you were asking people to use them, when them isn't one of Paul's pronouns. Then I realized that, in this sentence, them is a pronoun that refers to other pronouns - a metapronoun perhaps? As is these in the same sentence. Isn't syntax fun!

balalake · 21/07/2022 20:50

I think it was wrong and given that almost all meetings are too long, even saving 30 seconds by not talking about Paul's email signatures is worthwhile.

GoodJanetBadJanet · 21/07/2022 20:45

Sounds very unprofessional to me, singling out an individual. Could be construed as bullying in the workplace
Also this

GoodJanetBadJanet · 21/07/2022 20:44

Maybe this has been misunderstood, or people are being deliberately obtuse
Ooh ooh I'm going for the second option 😁

MozzarellaMonster · 21/07/2022 20:43

Beautiful 😁

Feckedupbundle · 21/07/2022 20:39

Very inclusive of you OP. I don't understand why previous posters aren't happy with your approach. It's clearly very important to Paul to be gendered correctly,and you facilitated that. After all,we are repeatedly told that misgendering folx is literal violence.

Terfydactyl · 21/07/2022 20:36

MrsRuggles · 21/07/2022 19:01

Maybe this has been misunderstood, or people are being deliberately obtuse. Indicating one's pronouns in email signatures is not to ensure that one is not misgendered. For cis people with names not clearly of one gender or another it does have that advantage. What your burly chap was quite likely doing was showing his support of trans people who are more often misgendered. It normalises the practice. Good for Paul.

Maybe you misunderstood?
The whole point of putting pronouns in an email is so that you wont be misgendered. Why else would you bother?

Does leave me wondering if pips has two different email addresses? Anyone know?

925XX · 21/07/2022 20:30

I don't give a flying fuck what anyone else puts on emails etc. I will still be signing off as Jane Bloggs (Mrs)

Ndd135632 · 21/07/2022 20:24

While we at it - we should also include our religious beliefs after our name too just in case you upset my by eating bacon in the work canteen.

warmsuncoldwind · 21/07/2022 20:23

Hats off OP. Saying that with a straight face must have taken a lot of energy. Well done to you, I’m really impressed.

Original poster
MsFogi · 21/07/2022 20:21

So this is what I don't get - on the one hand everyone is being encouraged by Stonewall etc to state their pronouns and not misgender people. Yet, on the other hand, when a middle aged woman embraces this it is assumed that I am mocking the person with pronouns/am unprofessional to ensure that someone is correctly gendered. I suspect that had 23 year old Eddy from accounts stated that he wants to be known as they/them going forward and 25 year old Daisy from marketing said this at the opening of her meeting she would be applauded for her inclusiveness. I can assure everyone that there was no way that I came across as mocking at all (my main concern is that if there were any GC women on the call they may now be worrying that someone in senior management will soon be telling them to include their pronouns on emails). But anyone including their pronouns needs to assume that people on the receiving end will take them seriously surely?

OP posts:
frazzledasarock · 21/07/2022 20:05

you're explaining your assumptions. Unless you know Paul, it can quite fairly be surmised his pronouns are important to him and it’s important to him everyone to knows his pronouns.

and that is all OP did, share his pronouns as per his email signature.