Page 33 | I am embracing virtue signalling pronouns in emails

MsFogi · 2022-07-21T17:25:07+00:00

I have realised I have made too many assumptions about gender over the years. I had always assumed that Paul (name changed of course) in my company was a man simply on the basis of his appearance (well over 6 foot, well built, big beard, low voice that only someone with an Adam's apple and whose balls have dropped could have). Imagine my relief to find that I have not been misgendering him for over a decade because he has helpfully added his pronouns to his email auto signature - they are he/him/his. There is no company diktat to add pronouns on emails so clearly this is important to Paul or maybe he has been misgendered recently. So, I thought I would ensure that Paul was not offended on a Teams meeting this afternoon and kicked off the meeting by asking everyone to note that Paul's pronouns are he/him/his and that given that he has stated these that everyone please be sensitive to ensuring that they use them. No one said anything so I think they all took it on board, no one misgendered Paul and I like to think that his move to include his pronouns at work has been embraced in my meeting. Maybe as a result others that attended the meeting will add theirs to their auto signatures too.

mrshoho · 21/07/2022 22:29

Sounds like you were mocking his use of pronouns?

Well here we are living with this pointless fad that we never asked for, don't need and don't agree with. So yes we can mock the sheer stupidity of Paul feeling the need to state his pronouns for whatever reason. It certainly wasn't incase he would be misgendered. The op was graciously affirming his pronouns and reminding colleagues to take note. Very kind and progressive of them.

bellac11 · 21/07/2022 22:28

aseriesofstillimages · 21/07/2022 22:24

The problem is that even if she hadn’t been doing it to make a point, this would not be an appropriate way to approach the situation. Say for example a member of staff had put their pronouns in their email signature as ‘they/them’ - it would not be appropriate for their manager (or anyone else) to point this out in a team meeting, unless they had first asked the individual whether they wanted the manager to do that.

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Why are they on the email signature then?

Conflictedunicorn · 21/07/2022 22:27

aseriesofstillimages · 21/07/2022 22:24

The problem is that even if she hadn’t been doing it to make a point, this would not be an appropriate way to approach the situation. Say for example a member of staff had put their pronouns in their email signature as ‘they/them’ - it would not be appropriate for their manager (or anyone else) to point this out in a team meeting, unless they had first asked the individual whether they wanted the manager to do that.

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But then what if people misgendered the they/them person by calling them the pronouns of their sex? Surely that would be upsetting to the they/them person. The managers can’t win can they?

aseriesofstillimages · 21/07/2022 22:24

HipTightOnions · 21/07/2022 19:20

Making a big thing of it to point out that it’s silly isn’t professional behaviour from a manager.

It sounds as though OP played it with a straight bat.

Whether the other meeting attendees saw this as a dig, a reasonable response, or completely incomprehensible, would depend on their position on the issue.

It's a neutral way of bringing the issue to people's attention.

The problem is that even if she hadn’t been doing it to make a point, this would not be an appropriate way to approach the situation. Say for example a member of staff had put their pronouns in their email signature as ‘they/them’ - it would not be appropriate for their manager (or anyone else) to point this out in a team meeting, unless they had first asked the individual whether they wanted the manager to do that.

IcakethereforeIam · 21/07/2022 22:22

@DialSquare

DialSquare · 21/07/2022 22:21

Oestrogelsmuggler · 21/07/2022 22:03

I'm going to put my favourite sexual position on my next work email, and anyone who doesn't offer to do it with me will be reported to HR for the microaggression it clearly is.

I assume you mean anyone who doesn't also put their favourite sexual position rather than anyone who doesn't offer to do your favourite position with you?!!!!!

Conflictedunicorn · 21/07/2022 22:16

So why is informing everyone about the pronouns Paul prefers bullying? Surely it is to help Paul avoid the risk of being misgendered? If Pail didn’t want people to know his pronouns, why put them in his email signature?

IcakethereforeIam · 21/07/2022 22:16

So now we have Schrodinger's pronouns.

bellac11 · 21/07/2022 22:15

Just thinking about this, the first time I saw this on an email signature was in 2018 and it was a woman who works at the Home Office.

I couldnt understand it, it put me right off her, i thought she was quite sensible up until then

surreygirl1987 · 21/07/2022 22:14

Look I don't like the pronouns thing either but I agree this sounds a bit bullying, deliberately embarrassing Paul when he most likely just wanted to be doing the right thing..

I agree. Actually, a great many of the comments on this thread are downright nasty.

Conflictedunicorn · 21/07/2022 22:14

GoodJanetBadJanet · 21/07/2022 22:02

No flies on you are there?
Least you've got the guts to say it out loud.
So yes, definitely unprofessional and bit bullying in the workplace to single out for mockery/fake pretend inclusion and running to the internet for praise on how funny they are and "I love you" posts.

Yes, it’s almost like those people who threaten women, get companies to apologise and grovel for misgendering and then go on the internet to boast about it. Or go into women’s spaces to ‘own the TERFS’ then go on the internet to boast and get love you posts. Why are you holding women to a higher standard than those people @GoodJanetBadJanet ?

RudsyFarmer · 21/07/2022 22:13

I enjoyed that OP 😊

HipTightOnions · 21/07/2022 22:12

he’s added something to his email (most likely encouraged by the popular movement and wanting to not seem out of touch

Paul is a grown adult. He chose to advertise "his" pronouns.

If he is now feeling a bit silly, well that's on him.

Cailleach1 · 21/07/2022 22:11

I agree with you @Olderbadger1 . I wonder what the real intent of someone like Paul is in making this outward profession of faith. A bloke who no one has ever called a doe by mistake.

It is ideological and I find it very hostile. I don't think they are are doing it to be kind. Whiff of the inquisition about it, and I'd suspect they'd rather enjoy using what they think is licence to be discourteous to people (especially women) who don't agree or believe in this stuff.

donquixotedelamancha · 21/07/2022 22:08

Sounds like you were mocking his use of pronouns?

How would one share the fact that a person want us to all know the special words we must use when discussing them, without it seeming like a joke?

It's like the very straight article about Quidditch changing its name, in the Guardian, which could just as easily be from the onion.

Oestrogelsmuggler · 21/07/2022 22:03

I'm going to put my favourite sexual position on my next work email, and anyone who doesn't offer to do it with me will be reported to HR for the microaggression it clearly is.

GoodJanetBadJanet · 21/07/2022 22:02

No flies on you are there?
Least you've got the guts to say it out loud.
So yes, definitely unprofessional and bit bullying in the workplace to single out for mockery/fake pretend inclusion and running to the internet for praise on how funny they are and "I love you" posts.

JasmineVioletRose · 21/07/2022 21:54

Kanaloa · 21/07/2022 19:08

Plus on top of that then posting it for kudos makes it clear op was not simply trying to be understanding of his pronouns.

No flies on you are there?

JasmineVioletRose · 21/07/2022 21:53

MrsRuggles · 21/07/2022 19:01

Maybe this has been misunderstood, or people are being deliberately obtuse. Indicating one's pronouns in email signatures is not to ensure that one is not misgendered. For cis people with names not clearly of one gender or another it does have that advantage. What your burly chap was quite likely doing was showing his support of trans people who are more often misgendered. It normalises the practice. Good for Paul.

🙄

Cailleach1 · 21/07/2022 21:49

LovinglifeAF · 21/07/2022 19:07

I had to call Barry recently. I was so grateful of the he/him on his email signature, I’d have assumed he was a woman otherwise.

Maybe one should elucidate on the other 99 potential genders (with invented unique pronouns) which one should not use when referring to Barry etc.

In fact all meeting could just be about pronouns. Which to use, and which to not use.

Kanaloa · 21/07/2022 21:49

WordleGummidge · 21/07/2022 21:35

@Terfydactyl it's the intent isn't it. Of course neither of us was at that meeting so can't be sure, but based on the OPs posts on this thread the intent did not seem to be to make Paul feel included. If that was the intent then I jumped to the wrong conclusion.

Yes exactly. The intent (including this thread) was obviously to make him feel small or stupid for trying to join in with it. But actually we’d get a lot further if we accept that most of the people who go along with this movement are swept up in it because they’re trying to do the right thing, just not quite getting there. Singling them out to look stupid in a professional environment is just nasty and op’s intent obviously was specifically to make him look bad.

Olderbadger1 · 21/07/2022 21:48

The moment I see pronouns on any form of communication I feel uneasy - aware that the person has taken an ideological position about an issue that is very different to mine. And that they are very likely to consider me bigoted for not agreeing with them.

On the thankfully rare occasions I've been asked for my pronouns at a meeting (IRL or on-line) I'm immediately on the defensive and aware that this is a way of categorising people - and potentially dismissing them.

So it's the opposite of neutral, polite, or inclusive. I'd rather not make people feel uncomfortable but this is a form of coerced speech and I'm not willing to just go along with it. The OP's response is bloody magnifcent!

Kanaloa · 21/07/2022 21:47

MagpiePi · 21/07/2022 21:27

Maybe Paul should have also stated that he didn't want anyone to use his pronouns?

So now we have to know without asking, whether people actually want us to use their stated pronouns, or if we're not supposed to because it is mocking them?

Is this the next level of 'I'm the most special and interesting' Top Trumps?

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Obviously nobody is saying not to use his pronouns. They’re saying that making a big fuss at a meeting of his colleagues thay he’s added something to his email (most likely encouraged by the popular movement and wanting to not seem out of touch) then posting online for congratulations is so unprofessional it’s untrue.

It’s a nasty belittling little move so op could show she doesn’t agree with the whole pronouns movement. But it’s not the right way to go about it at all.

VerveClique · 21/07/2022 21:46

The thing is, anti-discrimination legislation is absolutely not about intent.

What if Paul’s declaration of pronouns makes anyone else feel uncomfortable or degraded, even if that’s not Paul’s intention?

Let’s face it, we all Know that OP may very well be taking the proverbial. But isn’t this what some parts of society do…? As in, try to obligate others to subscribe to legal and scientific fiction?

sweetgrapes · 21/07/2022 21:46

Kanaloa · 21/07/2022 18:45

I mean I’m not a fan of pronoun talk but presumably he put it in his email because he may at times email people who do not know he is a 6ft well built man with a deep voice. I have a contact at uni who has a name that could be either way (like Alex) and actually the pronouns were helpful in that case as I knew who to expect.

What do you mean - "you knew who to expect"? Did you assume that a he/his would be male and a she/her female?
How incredibly transphobic of you!