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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I am embracing virtue signalling pronouns in emails

909 replies

MsFogi · 21/07/2022 18:25

I have realised I have made too many assumptions about gender over the years. I had always assumed that Paul (name changed of course) in my company was a man simply on the basis of his appearance (well over 6 foot, well built, big beard, low voice that only someone with an Adam's apple and whose balls have dropped could have). Imagine my relief to find that I have not been misgendering him for over a decade because he has helpfully added his pronouns to his email auto signature - they are he/him/his. There is no company diktat to add pronouns on emails so clearly this is important to Paul or maybe he has been misgendered recently.

So, I thought I would ensure that Paul was not offended on a Teams meeting this afternoon and kicked off the meeting by asking everyone to note that Paul's pronouns are he/him/his and that given that he has stated these that everyone please be sensitive to ensuring that they use them. No one said anything so I think they all took it on board, no one misgendered Paul and I like to think that his move to include his pronouns at work has been embraced in my meeting. Maybe as a result others that attended the meeting will add theirs to their auto signatures too.

OP posts:
Conflictedunicorn · 21/07/2022 23:08

Apropos misgendering, I thought words weren’t a big deal and labels were meaningless. At least that’s what we get told when we complain about being called uterus havers. So which is it? Are pronouns just words so misgendering is no big deal, or is misgendering literal violence?

HereWeGoAgainorBust · 21/07/2022 23:07

"AlisonDonut · Today 23:03
If you are a they/them, do you get two portions of the friday doughnuts? Or multiple?"

Wow I hope so. Can I be a everyone/all of them pronoun and eat the bloody lot?

LK1972 · 21/07/2022 23:07

@AlisonDonut Thank you , that was an excellent post, so true, and really worth considering:

'Comforting to know it wasn't a man?

And it was the pronoun that comforted you?

Are you aware that many, many men now use she/her and this could lull you into a false sense of security...almost like if it were some sort of calm inducing drug'

HereWeGoAgainorBust · 21/07/2022 23:06

If Paul puts his preferred pronouns on his emails then I take it that it means he wants everyone to use them? Is that not the case? Oh my this shite is sooooooo complicated. Why put them if not to use them? So bullying assumption above is incorrect then.

Conflictedunicorn · 21/07/2022 23:04

aseriesofstillimages · 21/07/2022 23:02

He didn’t have to. We don’t know why he did it, but it might be because (like me) he wanted to normalise the inclusion of pronouns in email signatures to make things slightly easier for those who have more need of them (because they are otherwise likely to be misgendered).

Well that’s his own lookout then. Play the virtue signalling game, get the mockery prizes.

AlisonDonut · 21/07/2022 23:04

aseriesofstillimages · 21/07/2022 23:02

He didn’t have to. We don’t know why he did it, but it might be because (like me) he wanted to normalise the inclusion of pronouns in email signatures to make things slightly easier for those who have more need of them (because they are otherwise likely to be misgendered).

Oh my god. Not Misgendering.

AlisonDonut · 21/07/2022 23:03

If you are a they/them, do you get two portions of the friday doughnuts? Or multiple?

HereWeGoAgainorBust · 21/07/2022 23:03

@Tryingtokeepgoing

Keep up, the OP was doing it correctly. You never know hairy Paul might be mistaken for a female if he didn't tell everyone. How awful would that be!

aseriesofstillimages · 21/07/2022 23:02

Wouldloveanother · 21/07/2022 22:57

Common sense that a 6ft bloke with a beard, Adam’s apple and penis has to put ‘he/him’ in his email signature?

Really?

He didn’t have to. We don’t know why he did it, but it might be because (like me) he wanted to normalise the inclusion of pronouns in email signatures to make things slightly easier for those who have more need of them (because they are otherwise likely to be misgendered).

HereWeGoAgainorBust · 21/07/2022 23:00

Well done.

I'm going for he/she on a Monday, she on a Tuesday, he on a Wednesday, The/they on a Thursday and Friday and everyone better watch out they get it right or I will complain immediately that they have misgendered me.

AlisonDonut · 21/07/2022 23:00

Kanaloa · 21/07/2022 22:47

You speak to your employee privately or check your company policy/check with a superior. What you don’t do is take the piss out of them at a staff meeting. It’s genuinely not that hard - anyone with the base level of intelligence to end up a manager of other people would be able to figure that out.

What if, when hearing that you are meeting they/them, the meeting never goes ahead as only one person showed up? You aren't thinking this virtue signalling through at all are you? You'll be sat there, possibly for hours, not knowing how to ask the person whether their other half is going to show or not.

IcakethereforeIam · 21/07/2022 23:00

There's a whole rogue's gallery of she/her.

Autocorrupt wanted to put 'rouge', I think it's becoming self-aware.

Wouldloveanother · 21/07/2022 22:57

aseriesofstillimages · 21/07/2022 22:54

Common sense? Common courtesy?

Common sense that a 6ft bloke with a beard, Adam’s apple and penis has to put ‘he/him’ in his email signature?

Really?

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 21/07/2022 22:57

For personal reasons at that time I found it very comforting to know it was a woman I’d be meeting with and not a man.

But you still don’t know this from the pronouns in signatures! A photo, generally yes. But pronouns in signatures could have led you into a false sense of security.

Conflictedunicorn · 21/07/2022 22:56

aseriesofstillimages · 21/07/2022 22:54

Common sense? Common courtesy?

but it is not common sense. It is the complete opposite. It’s narcissistic twiddle and virtue signalling. I’m with the OP on this one.

HipTightOnions · 21/07/2022 22:55

Common sense? Common courtesy?

Matter of opinion.

aseriesofstillimages · 21/07/2022 22:54

HipTightOnions · 21/07/2022 22:50

You refer to them as they/them, and correct others politely if you hear them using a different pronoun for the person.

In the words of my dear old dad, says who?

Common sense? Common courtesy?

mrshoho · 21/07/2022 22:54

Basically everyone and I mean everyone (85 year old Doris I'm talking to you too) please ensure you sign off all correspondence with your preferred pronouns (don't worry Doris I'll explain it to you again). Now everyone's joined in the game and made it so normal we never have to mention the p word again. Everyone is now happy and comfortable and will never be misgendered again and we all lived happily ever after..

Wouldloveanother · 21/07/2022 22:54

I want to nominate this for mumsnet classics but feel it wouldnt make the cut

Conflictedunicorn · 21/07/2022 22:53

Tryingtokeepgoing · 21/07/2022 22:50

Well indeed, it is at best unprofessional, and at worst bullying. I’m not sure what the OP thought they were achieving? Anyone in the team / on the call who was thinking of doing the same, perhaps because they had a genuine desire to clarify and let people know how they’d like to be addressed, will likely now not feel comfortable in doing so. And that’s wrong.

Why. OP was making it very clear she supports people using preferred pronouns and will take steps to ensure people are not misgendered.

aseriesofstillimages · 21/07/2022 22:53

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 21/07/2022 22:49

It's a bit odd though, because I have seen people take on the role of announcing an employee or colleague's pronouns many, many times.

And I don't think there were email chains discussing it before hand. It's just been tacitly accepted that you show support for trans people and non-binary people by telling everyone else about their pronouns.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that. I’ve seen people correct other people about a colleague’s pronouns if they’ve used the wrong one, but I can’t recall anyone at work just announcing another person’s pronouns for them.

HipTightOnions · 21/07/2022 22:52

I’m not sure what the OP thought they were achieving?

What I think it would have achieved is to give everyone - including Paul - pause for thought about the significance (or lack thereof) of pronouns in email signatures.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 21/07/2022 22:52

aseriesofstillimages · 21/07/2022 22:49

You refer to them as they/them, and correct others politely if you hear them using a different pronoun for the person.

So you do police pronoun use on other people's behalf then.

Just as I have seen. And by "refer to them as they/them", you mean loudly and pointedly use the specified pronouns in order to model the usage for the other people. Let's be honest here. I'm a millennial. I know.

Conflictedunicorn · 21/07/2022 22:52

aseriesofstillimages · 21/07/2022 22:49

You refer to them as they/them, and correct others politely if you hear them using a different pronoun for the person.

No. I might refer to them by their preferred pronouns, but I would not compel others to do likewise. Why would I do that?

tobee · 21/07/2022 22:50

HipTightOnions · 21/07/2022 22:50

You refer to them as they/them, and correct others politely if you hear them using a different pronoun for the person.

In the words of my dear old dad, says who?

Precisely