I am embracing virtue signalling pronouns in emails

OP you are an absolute legend my friend, I woke up with a smile on my face thinking about this thread this morning.

@mnhq is there any chance we could move this thread to mumsnet classics?

You think that SHE made him look silly by telling people that he was a he, even though it could not be any more obvious? You don't think HE made himself look silly by doing that?
Your response makes no sense. They both did the exact same thing, but he's a brave and compassionate ally and she's a unprofessional cowbag?

You don't see any issue with your analysis at all?

But
terfisaslur.com/

Is downright chilling.
There is a massive difference between childish nastiness, which I dont agree this is, and death threats, yet I'm forever seeing women being told off for pointing out the death threats or sarcasm or irony or double standards. Why are we held to account for every one else issues. We are not your mummy. We are adults, Paul is an adult, I also dont agree is nasty, more irony, which the Brits are good at.

Why does it make things easier?

Please can everyone try harder to remember that this is the feminism board, and that therefore our main objective in posting here is to learn more about how we can support the needs and feelings of people like Paul? I can’t quite work out whether the OP is bravely and kindly doing this, or is an evil TERF witch, but it is very, very obvious and sadly highlighted by this thread where women are mocking a brave for trying, that all of us, as women, need to try harder and do better.

Back to the team meeting, I think a good team leader would get ahead of this. Other team members would obviously notice Paul's new additions and questions/piss taking/even hostility could have been forthcoming. This was all neatly spiked by the OP, even if she was subtly mocking him.

Paul added his virtue signalling pronouns to his email in order to draw attention to them and his virtue signalling, why do it otherwise? Op merely ensured that everyone knew that Paul was being a good virtue signalling person and Paul can now polish his halo, pat himself on the back knowing that his colleagues are aware of his virtue signalling goodness.

Also snorting and loving “outwoke the woke”

If Paul needed to add his long established pronouns, or working hours, in his email, then he clearly wants attention drawn to them. There's likely to have been a misunderstanding somewhere along the line, with people asking him to complete work on a non working day, or mistakenly reading 'Paula' for 'Paul'.

How was it received, OP, given some scepticism here? I'd like to know the longer term impact. Perhaps everyone will add pronouns, to support Paul so he doesn't feel singled out in his need to publish pronouns.

You sound very unprofessional and if I were a friend of Paul or somebody in the meeting I'd be making a complaint against you. How nasty and petty. You don't agree with something so you ridicule somebody that does.

I'm not sure how that complaint would go. There was no ridicule in the OP, merely support for Paul's declaration.

Unless you think Paul's declaration is intrinsically ridiculous?

I feel almost lucky that my workplace is a misogynistic, non PC, non pandering sausage party.
I don't have to entertain bullshit pronouns from people that are so unique! Just like everyone else! 🙄
Luckily my MD is the kind of guy that would say "what the fuck are you on about? No, we aren't doing that!"
He's great 🙂

This. You sound very unprofessional and if I were a friend of Paul or somebody in the meeting I'd be making a complaint against you. How nasty and petty. You don't agree with something so you ridicule somebody that does.

I'm not going to pick a fight over something that has zero impact on me but has a huge impact on someone else.

Zero impact if you are male. Significant impact if you are female, with multiple studies to back it up.

I'm sure they'd let middle aged witch women in. They'd love a menopausal woman saying biology doesn't matter. Because they must really hate the fact that only women go through the menopause. We've only just started to get the world to take the menopause seriously and they are desperate to shut that down.

Apparently so. I’m sure the monitors will be here presently to tell us why pronouns are the most important thing ever and not using them is literal violence.

Oh dear me. Are there ladies frolicking unchaperoned at work meetings again?

We all know this game isn’t for you, middle aged witch women; only for the Young and Special.
That's awfully like tarring us all with the same brush.
I'm a middle aged witch woman too (nice 🙄 ) we don't all think the same.
Age has nothing to do with it.

I've had trans colleagues. I've slipped up. I've said sorry, they've said fine, we both move on. I don't believe a person can change sex but I will afford the respect to anyone out of sheer politeness.

The LGBTQ group have really grabbed the back offices with this pronoun idea (with help from Stonewall) but have failed to gain traction amongst my colleagues on frontline operations. To most of us we just want to get along and be able to work together as a team. Some of us are gay, lesbian or bisexual, but we'd rather talk about what happened on Love Island last night, or the recent heatwave, than stress over pronouns and gender identity. I have never been asked my gender, ever. I don't think I've ever heard my colleagues being asked either.

I like the idea of putting my star sign, my Chinese Zodiac animal, my belief system and my favourite political party on my work emails to make a point but I don't think it'll go down very well with my boss.

I understand that there is a huge debate over Trans rights.
However, mental health statistics for those who are trans are shocking, regardless of your beliefs everyone is a person and needs to feel safe.
Pronouns makes absolutely no impact on me. By putting pronouns I am not clarifying gender but that I am welcoming and understanding to all.
Great, so now I've shown I'm open to trans and non-binary people, we can have discussions about the bigger issues
I'm not going to pick a fight over something that has zero impact on me but has a huge impact on someone else.
You don't win in life by invalidating other people, we win when we find ways to get along without eroding peoples safety or needs.
Giving people pronouns doesn't mean trans activists are winning, it means we can have a sensible discussion about what does matter

I would find it incredibly useful to know, OP, as it would allow me to better understand Paul and his ideology. There is no better advertisement of membership, and it would guide my interactions (which would obviously be strictly professional).

For posters saying this was bullying, rude etc… in one of my old workplaces a male worker came out as a trans woman. They sent an email around, and when we came into a meeting the next week our boss said “oh just to let you all know, Bob is now Emily and her pronouns are she/her. “ Emily was present for this. Was this bullying ? I thought it was useful to know as Emily was very early in their physical transition and still looked as they did when they were Bob.

if the complaint is it’s taking the piss because the guy in the OP’s story is obviously male , then why isn’t the retort that if he’s obviously male then it’s … evident what his pronouns are ? It seems to be slightly trolly and piss taking for an obvious bloke to announce he’s a bloke.

Exactly. For women to remind people that they are, indeed, of the female sex can carry all sorts of not-beneficial effects.

In a male-dominated place of work this can be another tiny reminder of the woman as 'other', the stereotype threat could start functioning, and, perhaps most importantly, given that the pronouns include 'they/them', agreeing to post them does suggest that the person at least doesn't disagree with the idea that an abstract gender identity exists and is the basis for why someone is a woman or a man or neither (or both, depending on the day of the week). Not biological sex, that is.

Also, I wonder why mocking women is acceptable when we are reduced to one bodily function (menstruators, birthers) or one body part (uterus-havers, vagina-owners, individuals with a cervix), but it's not acceptable to make fun of preferred pronouns.

This is a fabulous funny thread, but as so often there's a serious point behind the humour, and PurgatoryofPotholes has nailed it:

Men like David can afford to remind people of their sex online. It is an assertion of status and a reminder to all that they are the type of human that is treated with respect in the workplace and is NOT sent unsolicited dick pics.

Mmmm, that would be a good point if anyone knew any woman called Paul, except informally by the sort of person who shortens everyone's name (and if you have a one-syllable name they add 'y' on the end).

MsFogi, you are my new crush role model.

@theclangersarecoming don't forget that we are simultaneously supposed to know who the elect are whilst being told that you can't even tell who the elect are as there is no difference between a common old garden woman and a trans woman. Paul has not confirmed anything as gender, we are told, has no relation to biology. Paul's proclamation is no less important than if Paul had said he was a woman and it is transphobic to suggest otherwise. The posters giving OP a hard time should check their privilege.