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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I am embracing virtue signalling pronouns in emails

909 replies

MsFogi · 21/07/2022 18:25

I have realised I have made too many assumptions about gender over the years. I had always assumed that Paul (name changed of course) in my company was a man simply on the basis of his appearance (well over 6 foot, well built, big beard, low voice that only someone with an Adam's apple and whose balls have dropped could have). Imagine my relief to find that I have not been misgendering him for over a decade because he has helpfully added his pronouns to his email auto signature - they are he/him/his. There is no company diktat to add pronouns on emails so clearly this is important to Paul or maybe he has been misgendered recently.

So, I thought I would ensure that Paul was not offended on a Teams meeting this afternoon and kicked off the meeting by asking everyone to note that Paul's pronouns are he/him/his and that given that he has stated these that everyone please be sensitive to ensuring that they use them. No one said anything so I think they all took it on board, no one misgendered Paul and I like to think that his move to include his pronouns at work has been embraced in my meeting. Maybe as a result others that attended the meeting will add theirs to their auto signatures too.

OP posts:
aseriesofstillimages · 22/07/2022 22:27

VerveClique · 22/07/2022 22:11

If Paul is white, and had put ‘white’ in his email signature, would that matter?

I’m really not asking for a bashing here. But it seems that it’s more acceptable to highlight some characteristics than others.

I think the OP was indeed probably pushing it. But who’s saying to Paul, ‘you’re bloody pushing it mate, for so many reasons’. Nope.., instead Paul is applauded as an ally.

The reasoning is perverse. It hurts my head.

The difference is that you don’t need to know the colour of a person’s skin or their ethnic heritage in order to refer to them in the third person.

TheBigotyBoggart · 22/07/2022 22:27

Well played op 😁

VestofAbsurdity · 22/07/2022 22:27

Apparently you can make up your very own special pronouns, mine are idgaf/foyt.

I'll leave you to work out what they are.

Conflictedunicorn · 22/07/2022 22:26

I could do all three. He/her/their/thiself. IT would be crying in a corner in a week.

Timeforanothername · 22/07/2022 22:26

I have a very tiresome they/ them colleague (his email signature includes sample sentences demonstrating correct pronoun use).
He recently left something behind after a meeting and it was given to me to return to him.
When I did so he quizzed me about who had given it to me: "male or female?" I'm still kicking myself that I didn't think of responding "don't know - didn't ask" in time.

MisgenderedPaul · 22/07/2022 22:23

Conflictedunicorn · 22/07/2022 22:20

Why does it always have to be he/him or she her? If I get forced to, I think mine will be she/his/hers/himself Or he/hers/his/herself. And they will change on a daily basis.

I honestly think they/them is the best. Try using those and making any sense whatsoever 😂

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 22/07/2022 22:21

VestofAbsurdity · 22/07/2022 21:56

All those stating this thread is nasty, posters are being mean, etc., have without exception swerved any and all of the serious points made by posters regarding pronoun usage, have refused to explain clearly why the OP ensuring that all her staff members were aware of Paul's preferred pronouns is inappropriate. We've had that Paul's pronouns cannot be shared amongst colleagues but if said colleagues use the incorrect pronouns for Paul they will need to be corrected. As PurgatoryofPotholes said a deliberate trap is being set for employees who will then no doubt suffer the slings and arrows of not being kind, inclusive, trans positive, yada, yada, yada, when their only 'crime' is not to have fucking known because no-one in management gave them a heads up but are more than happy to jump on them when they make the mistake and then lecture them into accepting compelled speech.

Exactly.

As a society, we need to reacquaint ourselves with the original intentions of "inclusivity".

It's not a synonym for "centring those and only those who identify as trans, no matter whom else our behaviour drives out".

Where does it stop? Will they refrain from upbraiding Dustin about pronouns, when his first language is obviously sign language?

Some may find the example employees I have used implausible, but they are all people (identifying details changed) or composites of people with whom I have worked since I left school.

VestofAbsurdity · 22/07/2022 22:20

This. Except, though Paul may be nice, he knows exactly what he's doing and his motives were self serving.

Exactly, Paul wanted everyone to know what a good virtue signalling ally he is, it's performative and done purely so he can bask in the warm glow of his own 'goodness'.

If what the OP quite reasonably did to promote his goodness and prevent colleagues saying the wrong thing burst his bubble, and there's no indication either way, then too bad, so sad, get over it.

Conflictedunicorn · 22/07/2022 22:20

Why does it always have to be he/him or she her? If I get forced to, I think mine will be she/his/hers/himself Or he/hers/his/herself. And they will change on a daily basis.

PearlClutch · 22/07/2022 22:14

MisgenderedPaul · 22/07/2022 22:10

Man here. I have said already that the op did a good thing. It really is that simples.

Praise be and thank you Paul Hehim.

Baaaaaa · 22/07/2022 22:11

picklemewalnuts · 22/07/2022 21:47

I've read most of the thread, including the concerns expressed by Kanaloa et al. I'm generally hampered by my inner nice girl.

In this case however, OP did nothing wrong. What she did, very explicitly, was turn on the bright lights in a murky room.

People are bumbling around willynilly, not really knowing what they are doing or why. Paul, a nice bloke, thinks he'll show how nice he is by declaring his entirely predictable and uncontroversial pronouns. Everyone else starts to feel pressured to join in, though not sure why.

OP comes along with a bloody big torch and spotlights those pronouns. 'Pay attention, colleagues. Here we have Paul, a bloke, whose pronouns are he and him. Thanks everyone'.

That bloody big light makes everyone start to wonder what it's all about. And that's a good thing.

Sunlight.

This. Except, though Paul may be nice, he knows exactly what he's doing and his motives were self serving.

VerveClique · 22/07/2022 22:11

If Paul is white, and had put ‘white’ in his email signature, would that matter?

I’m really not asking for a bashing here. But it seems that it’s more acceptable to highlight some characteristics than others.

I think the OP was indeed probably pushing it. But who’s saying to Paul, ‘you’re bloody pushing it mate, for so many reasons’. Nope.., instead Paul is applauded as an ally.

The reasoning is perverse. It hurts my head.

MisgenderedPaul · 22/07/2022 22:10

Man here. I have said already that the op did a good thing. It really is that simples.

Conflictedunicorn · 22/07/2022 22:07

PearlClutch · 22/07/2022 22:04

To be fair to the pp, there was mention of 'gobbledegook'.

Perhaps the post/thread ought to have had a content warning, idk.

Thar was me @PearlClutch . I did offer to repent in sporners corner. Can we use ‘total bollocks’ or is that also banned?

Conflictedunicorn · 22/07/2022 22:06

Yeah. I like doing the bingo cards. To be fair I am waiting for the words literal violence then I get a line.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 22/07/2022 22:05

MisgenderedPaul · 22/07/2022 20:34

Well, I thought the OP did a good thing

😂😂

OP only wanted to ensure everyone addressed Paul by his correct pronouns. I thought that was the point of adding pronouns to things 😂

PearlClutch · 22/07/2022 22:04

IcakethereforeIam · 22/07/2022 21:46

I'm a little sleep deprived and I don't want to reread the whole thread. That said, what nastiness? The nastiest thing I can recall is someone calling other posters nasty. Admittedly, the OP reduced a grown man to tears in a team meeting by forcing him to explain what a pronoun was...oh no, that didn't happen. Paul (hiya Paul), has been gently mocked on this thread. The OP assured us that didn't happen in the meeting.

Nastiest thread on MN? You should see what's being said about Sarah Raven over in Gardening.

Hyperbole aside I thing the posters on this thread are at odds but not nasty.

To be fair to the pp, there was mention of 'gobbledegook'.

Perhaps the post/thread ought to have had a content warning, idk.

Metabigot · 22/07/2022 22:04

Conflictedunicorn · 22/07/2022 21:59

It’s always the same posters who seem to pop up telling us we’re near, nasty text, then when questioned, pop off to find another thread to lecture and tone police people on. I’ve not been on here that long and I’ve started to see patterns. It’s quite amusing in a way.

Sometimes I play bigot bingo as the inevitable dialogue plays out..

Conflictedunicorn · 22/07/2022 21:59

It’s always the same posters who seem to pop up telling us we’re near, nasty text, then when questioned, pop off to find another thread to lecture and tone police people on. I’ve not been on here that long and I’ve started to see patterns. It’s quite amusing in a way.

Baaaaaa · 22/07/2022 21:58

GoodJanetBadJanet · 22/07/2022 21:44

I'd rather be rude than a fucking liar.
Is that a phrase you came up with yourself or is it a mantra you're parroting?

It's a quote.

Deliriumoftheendless · 22/07/2022 21:58

GoodJanetBadJanet · 22/07/2022 21:44

I'd rather be rude than a fucking liar.
Is that a phrase you came up with yourself or is it a mantra you're parroting?

Is there any reason anyone should answer your questions when you don’t have the basic courtesy to answer questions put to you?

VestofAbsurdity · 22/07/2022 21:56

All those stating this thread is nasty, posters are being mean, etc., have without exception swerved any and all of the serious points made by posters regarding pronoun usage, have refused to explain clearly why the OP ensuring that all her staff members were aware of Paul's preferred pronouns is inappropriate. We've had that Paul's pronouns cannot be shared amongst colleagues but if said colleagues use the incorrect pronouns for Paul they will need to be corrected. As PurgatoryofPotholes said a deliberate trap is being set for employees who will then no doubt suffer the slings and arrows of not being kind, inclusive, trans positive, yada, yada, yada, when their only 'crime' is not to have fucking known because no-one in management gave them a heads up but are more than happy to jump on them when they make the mistake and then lecture them into accepting compelled speech.

Baaaaaa · 22/07/2022 21:56

saraclara · 22/07/2022 19:04

Yet, on the other hand, when a middle aged woman embraces this it is assumed that I am mocking the person with pronouns/am unprofessional to ensure that someone is correctly gendered

But you were mocking him. You know it, and he knows it.
The fact that you were sly and underhand about it doesn't make it any better.

But hey, bullying is totally professional as long as you hide it well so that he can't prove anything.

Gaslighting a gaslighter. This bloke had his power ploy neutralised. It is unsurprising some people feel VERY uncomfortable about it. When you expect benefits from an action and it backfires, cognitive dissonance is the result. Good. It is not bullying. Bullying is what has been happening to people who call this out overtly.

Conflictedunicorn · 22/07/2022 21:52

GoodJanetBadJanet · 22/07/2022 21:44

I'd rather be rude than a fucking liar.
Is that a phrase you came up with yourself or is it a mantra you're parroting?

You seriously don’t know where they’d from but you spend a lot of time on the FWR boards. Bless you@GoodJanetBadJanet , you’re always a delight

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/07/2022 21:49

Is that a phrase you came up with yourself or is it a mantra you're parroting?

It's a Magdalen Berns quote. Perfectly expressed. RIP Magdalen.

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