Money Box this afternoon at 3pm on Radio 4

This. I will be polite. I will use pronouns in person. It does not mean I believe in gender woo any more than I believe in God or that the earth is flat.

People can believe whatever they want. They can't make me believe it. And they can't undermine my protected characteristic because I don't believe it.

eyeroll we are all non binary.

I don’t hate non binary people. I will use the name and pronouns someone asks me to use and I won’t upset or offend them by telling them I don’t believe non-binary is a thing, any more than I would offend a religious co-worker or acquaintance by telling them I didn’t believe the tenets of their religion were a thing. But you can’t make people believe, try as you might. And you can’t stop them expressing those views on social media any more than you can stop people saying “I don’t believe in sky fairies telling me what to do with my body” every time there’s a discussion on abortion. I notice people don’t come on those threads half so often wringing their hands about how hateful it all is to those with religious faith.

I also feel that if you want to direct your disappointment anywhere, it might be better to think about whether it really helps trans and NB people for someone to go on the radio and claim that very common human experiences are somehow uniquely suffered by trans people and by implication are evidence of discrimination. Living alone and having to pay the whole standing charge for utilities, for example. Or getting the bank to respect how you want to be called. There are plenty of threads on here about the fact it is impossible to get to get a bank to put a woman first on a mortgage application when it’s based on her salary, or even when her name is alphabetically first, or to get a statement addressed to Mr and Dr.

I think people confuse criticism of an ideology and ideas with criticism of people. It's not the same thing.

I can criticise the neo-liberal industrial-war-machine without hating Liz Truss, for example.

I can criticise how the male gaze is internalised and pressurises women to consider their worth in terms of their appearance and leads to excessive plastic surgery and possibly risky life decisions without pointing any fingers at women who are victims of this ideology.

I can criticise how the simplistic idea that masculinity and femininity are inherent traits leads anyone who is gender non-conforming to think they are obliged to pick an invented 'non gender' to make it clear that they don't subscribe to arbitrary sex stereotypes without making any aspersions at all about anyone's child who may identify as non-binary, who is probably young, experiencing various pressures from various directions both internal and external and in any case, at the end of the day just has a different opinion and life experience from myself.

Oh no! Not the whole bill surely? I mean, that's just nasty isn't it. Can't they just apply to that fund, you know, the one where if you want to save up for a private medical procedure you get super duper special half price internet so you don't have to whine on the radio like an entitled knob?

What do you mean, that's not a thing?! Oh well, they could always try growing the fuck up I suppose

Exactly @PearlClutch . We need to celebrate our tomboy women and girls. Not point them in the direction of a cult.

mosesb your child is going to meet a lot of people who judge them, I'm afraid. (No matter how they identify).

The women of Mumsnet are actually likely to be the ones standing up for them, fighting to keep them safe, working to ensure that they have access to health services, freedom from violence and abuse, support if they need to escape a difficult relationship, etc.

Most of us are more concerned about protecting your child from risk, danger and poor healthcare than we are about protecting them from opinions.

Yes, we may take the piss out of the concept of 'non-binary'. This is not the same as taking the piss out of your child, whom I wish nothing but the best for. Promise.

What sex is your child?

Telling your child that they must follow gender identity religion to be their true selves is not a kindness

And tell your female child that the fashion industry is a money making load of bollocks and they can wear what the hell they like.

My banking app asks you to speak a specific sentence that is then used in future phone calls to check identity. This would work whatever your voice sounded like. Why don’t TWs do this?

If I gave you diamonds and pearls
Would you be a happy boy or a girl?
If I could I would give you the world
But all I can do is just offer you my love

Then tell your female born child that there are lots of magnificent women in history that achieved mighty things. They didn't need to pretend they weren't women to do that.

Whatever folks, just want you to know that lots of mothers read this and worry for how much hate their children will get. I can't tell them they're wrong and lose our relationship. That means more to me than any politics

I think telling a child that they are non-binary is a lie. Where you mean that they don't have a sex or that their sex is not important.
My sex isn't important except when it is. And then it's very important.

Well they were born female

If your child is born male, you should tell him to respect women and girls single sex spaces.

Well you're wearing pearls so I'm judging

What white lie do you want me to tell them? I'm sorry I'm not understanding

I do all the DIY, my partner does all the cooking

I'm not criticising your parenting. I said explicitly that I tell lies to my kid because it's easier sometimes. But ultimately, when it matters, you have to tell the truth.
And I apologise for the term "white lie". That was silly

Older people? How very dare you. I'm not a day over 120.

The next comment will be about how my household is full of gender stereo types. It isn't. I work in IT, they've had all the toys trains, dolls whatever.