Moment of realisation

That is BRILLIANT!

In that case, enjoy this montage of known terf William Shatner.

‘Common People’ immediately starts playing in my head.

I wish I could have opted out of being a woman when I had my second child. I was advised it waz risky togo ahead and have a 2nd child due to health reasons but I took a chance and despite being seriously ill in my 3rd trimester risking permanent disability I had a healthy child and recovered.

Shame i couldn't have changed sex with my husband and he have the baby but that pesky ole transphobic biology got in the way...

True, but I am confused. How do you support equally two sets of conflicting rights? Or is it you support TW right spot dress how they like, act how they like and to use male spaces with safety. Because everyone here would support that I think

It's funny that at no point have I said twaw but several have you have put those words into my mouth.

What does "support both " mean?

I agree with both of you - although I don't, actually, think it's the government that's pitting women against transwomen. I can't stand this government, but I don't think the current angst and mud-slinging is on them in particular.

You can support a transwoman's right to live according to (some of) the conventions which society lays down for women, and you can have sympathy for the very genuine distress caused by gender dysphoria, and at the same time understand that whether you are male or female is massively significant, physiologically and socially, and that women should be able to organise politically on that basis.

I absolutely deplore the current fashion for treating us gender-critics as if we deserve to be burnt at the stake. At the same time, though, OP, I do think you're being mean about the particular individual you mention, who, as others have said, has probably got all sorts of problems of her own. Also, and perhaps most importantly, she hasn't done anything to hurt you. You just (probably) disagree with her.

I personally would have absolutely no common ground with a man who calls himself a woman.

The problem is they want to be spoken to as if they are women, they want to be accepted as a woman... my lived experience of BEING a woman doesn't match up with any of the expectations they will have. And frankly I've not the time to dedicate any of it to play pretend with a man in a dress to make them feel validated.

I see exactly where OP is coming from too. I wouldn't put on scrubs and wonder into an operating theatre, having skipped the many years of constant learning, heartbreak, sleepless nights, sacrifice and mistakes and say "I'm a surgeon, let's discuss all this shiny equipment in here!" So why should I give space to a person who hasn't had to suffer female puberty, periods, the havoc hormones wreak, child bearing, child rearing as a mother, menopause, not to mention the far reaching disadvantages of being a woman outside of simple biology. The unfair workplace, trying to juggle a home and work and sometimes children, the fear of walking home alone at night because of men.

I just don't have time for it, I won't entertain it.

Yes. Like many many women I’ve gone off hormonal contraception, I think I’ve given my body enough years of that. So trying to work out options- are we done with the family so Dh can get a vasectomy, are there any other good options? I don’t think there are, the coil sounds horrific when I find Pap smears painful.

I also absolutely agree that the argument that women are more than their biology is very shaky, especially the simplistic way in which is often expressed. Let me try to nuance it a little.

There is a class of humans that, because of their biology has been marginalised/oppressed/violated. These are biological women.

That class of humans has created their own culture - a form of dress, speech, presentation, which is, however, as time goes by blurring more and more into our main culture (see, for instance, women's way of dressing).

Often such culture is parallel to mainstream culture, sometimes it panders to it to be accepted by the male paradigm.

A biological male can impersonate womanhood to take on the sociological dressing-on of this subculture, but they will never truly be part of it because they lack the biology that ultimately creates the whole woman culture.

*younger, not longer. Autocorrect fail.

Fucking hell Janet, haven't you been lucky? I am Italian, grew up in Italy and as a longer, good looking woman, my life was HELL because of the unwanted 'attention' which many times bordered on the aggression. I tried not to let it affect me but, yes, I had to risk assess all the time.

I’m with you @Cantanka. The main issue here is that we are all being gaslit into believing and stating that transwomen are literally women when we all know they aren’t. But if we dare say they we are told we are transphobic. That’s where all the issues and conflicts come to play.

Transwomen are transwomen. Don’t gaslight me into stating otherwise.

In my opinion, you can support both but to do so you have to recognise that the oppression experienced by trans women is not the same as oppression experienced by natal women, and unpick that to work out how to best achieve equality for everyone.

Pretending that it’s as simple as TWAW and that it’s bigotry to talk about sex as opposed to gender is not supporting women, for many of whom their sex is a fundamental part of their lived experience.

I would also like to know the answer to this.

Saying being a woman is a matter of your sex isn’t reducing people to their body parts. It’s just that the word “woman” is literally a description of someone who has those body parts.

Why can't I support women and trans people? False dichotomy here. The government are pitting us against each other. Focus on the real enemies eh. Oh, and climate change.

Getting a contraceptive implant is a uniquely female experience that no transwoman will ever go through. You will need to think about the long term implications of contraceptive implant use if you plan on having used it right from when your periods started all the way through to menopause, I don't believe that is recommended?

A transwoman doesn't have periods because they have a male reproductive system, not because they looked at all of the contraceptive options available and made a decision about which one would prevent pregnancy most effectively whilst fitting in with their life.

Also, lucky you if you had the implant popped in and your periods stopped just like that - lucky you, as that is quite unusual I think?

This 'more to being a woman than my body' thing....what is the 'more'?

What is it that makes you a woman if its not your body?

(I know I won't get an answer to this by the way, but I still like to put the question out there every now and then!)

"Leave them alone" - leave women's single sex spaces alone. Stop trying to neutralise language women fought for to describe themselves. Stop describing these as "trans rights" when they are "men's demand". Then we're golden.

Thankyou for telling the TRA that. Your support for women is noted and welcomed.

Just leave them alone, you just sound bitter.

Bollocks. Unless you’ve been living in a hole, you know you have seen worn reduced to ‘uterus havers ’ people with a cervix’ ‘people who menstruate’. ‘Birth givers’. You know you have. It’s been all over the press, media, social media, nhs websites. There was even someone from a Native American history site calling women ‘womb carriers’. Do you think we’re all just making it up for attention?