Single Sex Toilet issue creeping into everyday life?

Talking about women with buggies leaving the cubicle door open has reminded me of DD always trying to unlock the door whenever she was in a cubicle with me. She was one of those toddlers who wanted to fiddle with everything. It was a minor thing back then but would be awful in mixed sex loos.

Sadly, I'm not and it's one of the reasons we are in this fucking mess all the women pandering, being kind, trying to come up with excuses like some of the posters on this thread. There's a special circle in hell awaiting them.

Murica's post has reminded me of the time I was a teenager and stopped by a much older man who talked to me as if he knew me and my family. He asked me how I was getting on, and how my parents were. He didn't use my name or my parents' names and I didn't recognise him, but I answered his questions and pretended I knew him because I didn't want to be impolite. It was only when he asked me to go for a cup of tea with him and tried to take my arm that I ran away. Afterwards I felt bad - for being so rude.

I would like posters to stop telling women and girls to give men who have invaded their space the benefit of the doubt.

Victoria Smith nails it here.

When I was a teenager I finished my restaurant job at midnight and started for the bus stop. On my way a man stepped out of his car and called out to me. I didn't even think, I ran like hell. He yelled after me that he wasn't going to hurt me. Once safely on the bus, my female socialization kicked in. Maybe he just wanted directions? Maybe he didn't realize his pants were unzipped? Had I just been mean to the nice man? He said he wasn't going to hurt me.

I thought of this incident when I read the Gift of Fear years ago. I thought of it again when I discovered recently that the author has videos on YouTube. And then this thread made me think of it again. When a man breaks social norms like following a woman closely, standing right next to her in an elevator, offering to help a woman who doesn't need help, accosts a teenager with his pants undone or turns up in the ladies, that's a red flag. Those who are looking for excuses are a danger to everyone, especially themselves. I urge them to take a look at Gavin DeBecker's videos.

Maybe that guy was mortified when he realized he scared me. Maybe he stopped doing shit like that. But being rude to an innocent but bumbling man is not a terrible crime.

That too when OP has clearly said the men's loo's were fine.

Isn't it just

its not unusual to see some poor mum wrangling two small children whilst trying to have a pee - door ajar with one on her lap and the other standing just outside in her eye line.

sorry but men can just bugger off - they don’t need to use the ladies, they just want to (whatever their motives, from ‘validation’ to ‘it smells better/shorter queues’ to ‘I want to leer at women/scare them’)

Our swimming pool has mixed sex toilets and changing. My little one was bursting and we had to go back out and wait outside in the changing area as there was a man in there weeing with the door wide open, it's horrible.

Interesting to see this thread.

I had a first encounter with a mixed sex loo yesterday in a cafe. There was one cubicle and then an area with sink/dryer. 6yo DD went first, and then usually I'd say just wash your hands and wait for me to use the loo. But I wasn't comfortable to leave her in a mixed sex area by herself. So, sent her back to the rest of our gang for me to have a pee. Its small, it doesn't matter in itself but point is I feel less safe. I'm privileged in many ways. If i was a single mum, had a disability then how would I manage that?

And why are so many women making excuses for entitled men transgressing boundaries. I do not care about the hurty feels of entitled men, assuming the worst of them is entirely appropriate and necessary to maintain your own safety. Giving men the benefit of the doubt when confronted with one behaving in a way which makes women feel intimidated is incredibly naïve.

Centering men is a really difficult habit to break for many women as it's so ingrained by female socialisation - I know because I still struggle with it and even now don't always realise I'm doing it.

If men don't want me to think badly of them then they need to get the fuck out of women's spaces. If you're a man in a women's toilet you've already announced yourself as a disrespectful wanker.

Absolutely.

It’s just sheer male entitlement then. Why should HE have to queue if the women’s has capacity?

The public Ladies I was in, where a man (dressed in men's clothes) was using the facilities for no apparent reason was in Edinburgh. It wouldn't surprise me if the men in question or the police in Edinburgh called any challenge to a man in the Ladies a hate crime and reported you.

It's increasingly likely in, what should be, single sex loos too now. I can't believe we've ended up here. And why are so many women making excuses for entitled men transgressing boundaries. I do not care about the hurty feels of entitled men, assuming the worst of them is entirely appropriate and necessary to maintain your own safety. Giving men the benefit of the doubt when confronted with one behaving in a way which makes women feel intimidated is incredibly naïve.

If men don't want me to think badly of them then they need to get the fuck out of women's spaces. If you're a man in a women's toilet you've already announced yourself as a disrespectful wanker.

I never use a toilet on a train, they’re filthy and I genuinely would drink less to ensure that I do have to.

This happened to me recently at waterloo station. A man in his 50s, absolutely steaming drunk. Staggered past the long line of women queuing up and tried to barge his way into the ladies.

the female attendant was brilliant, wouldn’t let him by, although he tried to push past her several times. It must have been really scary for her.

fuck knows what he was thinking. In hindsight I suspect he felt like getting off on invading womens space

Probably not even waiting till later - they can't control themselves

Loving the brainstorm of caveats and excuses. Hey, what if he only had one leg, one eye, was 4 foot, looked sad, wore a pronoun badge, identified as a toilet attendant, was actually a spy working for the government on a top secret toilet based mission, fell from the sky, couldn't read the sign and had just saved a puppy from a building, what then? Hmmm. Hmm.

Women do not have to justify, argue, defend or explain (JADE) that the women's toilet are not for men's use.

The man in the OP shouldn't have been there, it really is that simple.

What if-ing is just a waste of everyone's time tbh.

If we're going to play older woman top trumps, I am hurtling towards old age and I would not challenge a man in an enclosed space with only children present. No I am not going to tell you why, work it out.

I've just recently read that one man can easily overpower two women. And you think OP should have just chatted to him?
For real?
If hes clued up enough to read the signs, he knows what he is doing is wrong. It smacks of the acronym we are not allowed to say, but requires the non consenting of women for the thrill.

So youve used a airline or train loo ? Or gone into a small cafe with only one loo

Individual cubicals are not a threat. Go to the one with the shortest queue.

Next you'll be telling us that we share our house toilets with men. Stop gaslighting, the toilet in question is a normal womens toilet with open top cubicles. You want to share with men on you go but we say no.

This is how women are forced to navigate the world now. We are told that men are predators and we are responsible for ensuring we don't end up in a position of vulnerability but, somehow, simultaneously it is offensive to think of men as predators and we must assume that they are acting in good faith.

How many men have done terrible things when they have been given the benefit of the doubt? The uncertainty created by gender replacing sex is a gift to the worst of men.

Are you intentionally ignorant or actually this stupid?

There is a very obvious difference. One is a room that contains a self contained toilet, sink, hand dryer and sanitary bin with a lock on the door that means you are the only person in the room with those things.

The other is a large room with a row of cubicles that often have large gaps at the top and bottom and a row of sinks that people gather together to use.

In the first example, like on an aeroplane or in your house, no one else is in the room with you.

In the second example a complete stranger could look over the top of the cubicle or push a phone camera under the bottom, will be stood next to you at the sink.

Now thinking objectively and using your common sense, do you see how those 2 situations differ?

“Do you realise you’re in the ladies?” To a big man would be dangerous. I’ve seen enough idiots on Twitter threatening violence to anyone who misgendering them. At the least the OP May have have risked an upsetting scene in front of her children.

and of course this is what the men rely on.