98% of people want single sex spaces - poll report from YouGov

@CraggyIslandTouristBoard 😂Pip Bunce definitely shows how ridiculous the current situation is. I used to joke the easiest way to improve a gender pay gap was to ask male CEOs to transition, that was before I realised how wide the definition of transgender had become.

Thanks @Seemslikeaniceday that's really helpful. I challenged (anonymously!) the transitioning policy at work, which says that transitioning people are automatically allowed to use the toilets/changing rooms/showers of the gender with which they identify. I got a rather wishy washy response saying the policy was drafted in 2019 and is due for a review. I'm giving them a couple of months on that and then plan to challenge it further as necessary and also ask them to confirm that trans women will not be counted in the women's stats for gender pay gap reporting. You've saved me a job in digging out the relevant law to point them to.
On a related note, I do hope Credit Suisse is also aware of this - can you imagine having to adjust your gender pay gap statistics every day depending on whether Pip Bunce is Phil or Pippa?! 🙄 www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6197705/City-workers-hit-gender-fluid-banker-works-days-Philip-Pippa.html

I’m only surprised that it’s as low as 98%.

I hate the “What gender were you assigned at birth?" question. A better and more accurate question would be “have you had female or male socialisation forced on you since birth?” But that still is daft compared to “what sex
are you?”

ive fought the battle for a clear question but have usually lost.

I don’t think the exact wording is out yet? I was going off the quotes in this bit of the OP.

As for single-sex sports teams, 61 per cent said they were important for “fairness and safety.”'

I was speculating whether the mention of safety confused some people who hadn’t given it much consideration! I think even some polls commissioned by TRAs have been more strongly against “trans women” in women’s sports so it’s an odd one.

Maybe the full report will shed some light.

I can't find the wording, sorry, can you point me to where it is? Although I'd think 'fairness' would make people think about strength advantage etc.

I had assumed this too - this is good evidence.

I’m pretty sure that in other polls I’ve seen, opposition to TW in women’s sport was much higher than opposition to mixed sex toilets (and opposition to mixed sex toilets was lower than this poll found, though still high) so there is probably something about the wording here that’s bringing out different answers.

I expect they defined "Trans women" to make it clear that this is a male individual. Many people still thinks this means a female who is taking testosterone etc.

I have seen the question worded as "what gender were you assigned at birth?" on some forms and the only options they gave were male or female.
Suppose that is one way of clarifying biological sex.

@CraggyIslandTouristBoard Sadly the UK legislation is called Gender pay gap so it’s not worth challenging the name.

However, it is a regulation under the EA2010 and very clearly compares the pay of male and female employees, so you can make sure when reporting they use male and female with the EA2010 definitions I.e. includes those with GRC as their legal sex but everyone else as birth sex. As only c5000 people in total have a GRC the numbers are so small that unless they were CEO/highest earners they would not distort the statistics.

Just listened to that clip. Sadly represents the invasive TW view - with a hectoring and bullying tone to boot

I’m pretty sure that in other polls I’ve seen, opposition to TW in women’s sport was much higher than opposition to mixed sex toilets (and opposition to mixed sex toilets was lower than this poll found, though still high) so there is probably something about the wording here that’s bringing out different answers.

I'm surprised about the single-sex sports stat too

Could it have been the “fairness and safety” wording? A lot of people may have been thinking about athletics or swimming where safety issues aren’t apparent.

I'm surprised about the single-sex sports stat too. Do people just not know/think so much about it, as it's perhaps less part of people's everyday lives than a changing room or public loo?

Oh wow. I saw another article about this, but it described it as a survey on the Sex Matters website. So I assumed self-selecting. I didn’t realise it was a yougov poll! This is fantastic.

The word “gender” is often used when what is meant is biological sex - I think this is even more the case in the US. I’m sure this is largely to do with people avoiding using the word “sex” because of awkwardness around its other meaning.

I wondered about challenging the terminology of “gender pay gap” at work but I think this is the terminology used by the UN, and if we talked about the “sex pay gap” it sounds like it relates to sex workers or something.

This is something we should just get over and of course the sloppy use of language is far from ideal in current climes. But I take the view that if eg a form asks for “gender” and gives “male/female” as the options it is asking you for your biological sex. Unfortunately a trans person is likely to interpret the question differently. However, given that many trans people (or at least TRAs) seem to believe they are literally the opposite sex, then asking people to state their sex may make no difference.

I’m more riled where there is no question about your sex, and you’re instead asked to state your gender and given a choice of “male/female/non-binary/gender fluid/other” etc

Had to complete an online form yesterday. It asked me for my gender (not sex) and gave two options…you can guess what they were.

It’s a constant, insidious creep. And it’s meaningless.

They are literally using the words female/ male now to describe their chosen gender. The denial runs deep.

I wouldn’t happily support a campaign for “third spaces” toilet / changing room facilities. In the current climate in which people are facing an astronomical cost of living crisis and as a result there will be more people than ever dependent on food banks and not able to keep their children warm over the winter, “third spaces” are a relatively trivial matter and very few people in the overall population will consider it a priority / have sympathy if they see their local authorities spending money adding to existing facilities to appease a very tiny but vocal minority.

Until not very long ago, nobody above the age of four expressed confusion about which toilet to use in a public space. You use the toilet that caters for your sex, or you use the disabled toilet, if there is one.There are only two sexes. People buying into gender ideology know exactly which sex they are. The faux confusion/obfuscation over the issue is mind boggling, isn’t it?

Until now I had never heard of Simon Rimmer but now I have, I won’t be going to his restaurants.

It's very important to most people to have privacy from the opposite sex while using the restroom or changing facilities(exception being very small children) for reasons of dignity and safety.