Paris Lees on Politics Live

Yes, Regina Doherty made a show of herself a few weeks ago. She admitted that there were things they hadn't considered at the time of the legislation.

thecountess.ie/regina-doherty-says-the-quiet-bit-out-loud/

It really pisses me off when Ireland is used as a 'look how well things are going' example - because that's complete nonsense. Irish people were not consulted about this law, and many of us feel completely betrayed by the government for enacting this without considering the consequences for women and girls.

On how well the self-id has gone in Ireland: Wasn't there just some Irish politician visiting Scotland to speak about this and on questioning admitted that Ireland has kept no statistics on anything having to do with the impact of self-ID?

I may be wrong about this, but it was only a few weeks ago that this exchange took place. This suggests that Ireland has no information how many have changed their gender identities now, and how that has affected all sorts of things, especially for women.

Wrongly??? Don't think so!

Live4weekend

They believe they are women (rightly or wrongly)

They want to be able to use the single sex facilities as a women.

They have been using the single sex spaces up until this point.

They believe (with some justification) that they can use the single sex spaces.

Sorry, what justification is there? None as far as I and many other women are concerned. Just because some may have been using single sex spaces by stealth and getting away with it for a while doesn't make it right. Women are not here to validate their existence.

OMG - poor "Kemi"! Why didn't the interviewer tell Paris Lees to STFU and let Inaya actually put her point across?
It's here. About 32 minutes in.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00197q7/politics-live-14072022

Jake Berry did annoy me too with his bland Mr Emollient comments. Sensitive... sensitivity...and 'I'm not an expert'...blah blah. Who the hell is? But it's our business, nevertheless. Defer to 'experts' and wash hands. You're an MP and can't shuffle off your responsibility.

It's the reasonable misogynist's way of saying STFU women.

How do you mix up "Inaya" and "Kemi"? That's not like saying Jane instead of Janet.

I've no idea why PL was on a political discussion programme, other than to plug a book that is not about politics. PL clearly has a fairly rudimentary understanding of politics. Let alone zero understanding of the Gender Recognition Act and their own legal status.

It's nuts isn't it? What on earth was the point of #metoo?

A few years ago virtually every woman was sharing experiences of predatory males and now that's been completely gaslit when it comes to single-sex spaces.

As far as the presenter goes, of course she should get the names of the guests right but I did feel sorry for her having to deal with the antics of Lees - should have been firmer there, I thought, as it wasn't fair to the woman trying to speak, whose name I didn't know - and then with Kennedy and the language, perhaps she got distracted and a bit flustered - it must be like trying to control a bucking horse.

Jake Berry did annoy me too with his bland Mr Emollient comments. Sensitive... sensitivity...and 'I'm not an expert'...blah blah. Who the hell is? But it's our business, nevertheless. Defer to 'experts' and wash hands. You're an MP and can't shuffle off your responsibility.

I heard the interview with James O Brien. I thought it was very creepy. No-one can change sex. Watch Robert Winston on Question Time. He is an expert.

I would prefer that woman could be respected again and that we educate people to understand that there are a small number of situations where people born male need to be excluded.

Exactly.

Why would a bathroom bill be discriminatory? TW could still use bathrooms, just the ones appropriate to their sex. No one is saying a TW cannot use a male bathroom, or a male space. In fact they should be encouraged to.

I am extremely uncomfortable with that option.

I would prefer that woman could be respected again and that we educate people to understand that there are a small number of situations where people born male need to be excluded.

I think a 'bathroom bill' is discriminatory but if things stay as they are now then women are not equal citizens.

That would have a devastating impact on TW and their validation and would single them out sadly.

The devastating impact on transwomen would be clarity around their mistaken belief that they can use womens single Sex facilities, and a lack of validation.

Devastating?

Women are not here to validate males. TW need to learn this. If they are in danger in male spaces, that is a problem for males to sort out. Not women. We are not human shields or collateral damage.

I've just watched on catch up. I thought Paris didn't look in a good place and was very obviously rattled. I guess they just want to talk about their book but if you go on Politics Live...

It was quite uncomfortable watching them lose their rag so blatantly. Baroness Kennedy had been quite shouty too so the atmosphere was quite volatile. I've seen Paris being interviewed on many occasions - look up their interview with James O'Brien from about 4 years ago when Paris had just appeared in Vogue. O'Brien was so obsequious and evidently 'charmed' by Paris and acted like a schoolboy with a crush rather than the snidey dismissive interviewer he can be. Paris has a very Media-friendly persona and appears in Vogue and in L'Oreal adverts, I'm surprised they allowed themselves to lose it on live TV. If they are suffering poor mental health at the moment perhaps they should decline further TV appearances that will inevitably ask them about this issue.

I hate how the Grant Schapps and Jake Berrys of this world get to do this 'oh this is just stoking dissent, lets live and let live, it's not an issue that affects me personally therefore it CAN'T be important' etc... schtick. And it was awful that nobody got to say a single thing about women's rights. Admittedly Inaya
Folarin Iman tried but was being shouted over by Paris.

The whole line of 'Self-ID has been brought in in Ireland and Scotland (WTF has it gone through in Scotland? That's not been finalised surely?!) and the sky hasn't fallen in, was trotted out by Paris which infuriated me. Which Irish women have been asked about this? Maybe ask again?

It was a shambles. Yes, of course people are using this issue to score points and influence the leadership contest which is frustrating. But it's getting discussed and it feels as if people might start realising that this isn't a 'trans' issue as such, it's predominantly a womens' rights issue.

And it was awful that the host called Inaya, Kemi - bloody awful.

You mean like a Trump style ‘bathroom bill’?

I don’t see an easy solution either but there has to be a middle ground. But that won’t keep everyone happy whatever happens.

on another note the presenter called Inaya - Kemi😮

They believe they are women (rightly or wrongly)

They want to be able to use the single sex facilities as a women.

They have been using the single sex spaces up until this point.

They believe (with some justification) that they can use the single sex spaces.

We either carry on as is, with devastating consequences for woman due to the number of people transitioning.

Or the law needs to change to make female single sex spaces for women only.

That would have a devastating impact on TW and their validation and would single them out sadly.

I don't see we have an easy solution.

I need my daughter to be safe. As things stand currently I don't think she is.

devastating consequences for TW.

What do you think would be the devastating consequences for TW?

Problem is that the country has already sleep walked into a situation where we now have a de facto self-ID. Difficult to undo.

I watched the programme. I had no idea who Paris Lees was. It was all rubbish!

Interesting, haven't seen anything about PL for ages.

Thought maybe younger versions had usurped. Interesting.

I can't believe I uses cis males 🤣 I have never used it to describe woman and never will

That's not really it for me.

Even without self id in law we are at a situation now where woman no longer have single sex spaces and the words that have always been used to describe us, are being replaced with terms that are dehumanising. And it's only happening for woman, not men.

It's not just about safety. We are already at greater risk now because the number of TW has exploded recently. Tw were born male so the risk from them is the same as it is from cis males. So even if the person has genuine gender dysphoria, and are living as a TW, they are as much of a risk as anyone else.

And the there is dignity.

Not once have I heard a TRA acknowledge that TW being in female spaces impacts woman. All I ever hear about is the danger to TW of using male spaces.

Even without self id, things are already an awful lot more dangerous for women, especially young girls / young woman.

Up until now, numbers of Transexuals have been very low and on many have respected/ understood that there is differences between them and women. That respect has kept woman safe. Perhaps they did use ladies facilities but it was so few and far between, and there was consideration that it didn't really impact us.

The respect for woman is no longer there. I don't think it will come back even if self ID is not brought in.

I don't know where we go, without devastating consequences for either woman and at the opposite end devastating consequences for TW.

I don't want to see either group suffer. Unfortunately Stonewall / TRAs have made it impossible for all of us now.

I'm disappointed in her because I'm 100% certain she does get it but has chosen to pretend otherwise because it serves her interests better.