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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I objected to gender ideology at work and now need support

87 replies

Hotfeetcoldfeet · 12/07/2022 20:08

First post but been reading the feminist board for a while. I don’t have any GC support IRL and thought this would be a good place to find some hopefully.

I work in the public sector and have recently seen snippets of Diversity and Inclusion material which will soon be published and widely distributed to staff. I’ve raised concerns to the senior leader who has produced this material as it seems to uncritically put forward a gender ideology view, via language used (eg cis gender women) and resources positing gender ideology.

I’ve contacted them and said that I think that the material presents gender ideology uncritically, as fact, rather than presenting it as an opinion /belief. I’ve said that my GC views are protected by the Equalities Act and should be presented alongside gender ideology, in order to give balance. I’ve said I’m happy to share my GC views with them. Ultimately, I’m worried about gender ideology being accepted by staff in my workplace as fact. Pronouns in email signatures are creeping in and the person to whom I’ve objected has their pronouns stated. They’ve said they’ll raise my issue higher up the chain, which I’m seeing as positive.

I’m probably catastrophising but I’m worrying about putting my head above the parapet, as it’s not something I usually do. I would value any wise words you can give me, and also if there are any resources or anything anyone can think of that might help my case, I’d be hugely grateful. I’ll be reading about the issues in a more targeted way now, in order to be prepared if I get the chance to discuss my GC views further.

Thanks so much in advance

OP posts:
IStandWithMaya · 13/07/2022 22:10

Thanks for speaking up!

My advice is to keep it factual, not emotional.

Wishing you success, OP.

HermioneWeasley · 13/07/2022 22:04

Well done OP! It seems to me that the issues are particularly relevant in criminal justice - mens crimes being recorded as womens, female victims being forced to use their attackers preferred pronouns in court, violent males housed in womens prisons.

Discontentedpony · 13/07/2022 21:59

Really impressed you're confident in speaking out and also that your employers seem to be listening.
I work for a large charity and HR are really pushing for ppl to use pronouns in our email signatures and also now giving out pronoun badges for ppl to wear. Also have an LGBT committee pushing big on the T. I've complained to HR that our staff survey asked for gender not sex and also commented on the risks around an intranet article encouraging ppl to intervene on a hate crime by putting yourself between victim and perpetrator with no mention of personal risk assessment of whether it's safe to do so. I've also raised with my manager confidentially that a colleague has a link in her email signature titled 'why I use pronouns and you should too' which links to a linked in article by a they them preaching gender ideology.

My manager has just ignored this but I think this is because he's not aware of what's going on and doesn't know what to make of it.

I wish I had some support at work but it feels like everyone has been captured by the gender woo and I'm on my own.

Hotfeetcoldfeet · 13/07/2022 20:49

Great advice again, from people who really know what they are doing. Agree I was getting a bit gung-ho so I’ll chill out a bit, do some more research (via the resources mentioned in this thread) and chat to people about it in my organisation with a light touch. I do trust the D&I leader to look into it and I want then to see me as a helpful ally, rather than a rabble rouser - I’ll play the long, strategic game.

sounds like lots of battles, big and small, are being fought on many fronts and it’s fascinating to hear all your stories. Thank you again

OP posts:
Manderleyagain · 13/07/2022 17:05

I would agree with notes of caution, especially about the presentation and making yourself the face of something which is, wrongly imo but nevertheless, will be met with negativity. It's something to think about OP.

The other organisation to look into is counterweight
counterweightsupport.com/

Seemslikeaniceday · 13/07/2022 16:35

Posters on these forums are very on top of latest developments and it is easy to assume everyone is aware of Maya’s EAT and ET. This is not the case, for many they have been drip fed stonewall truth for years/decades.

I would always recommend forwarding copies of both judgements along with Peter Daly’s explanation of why points were dismissed. Advise them that Gender Critical views are now protected beliefs and that the organisations who fail to include this in policies, procedures, training etc. are at risk of discrimination claims. Point out the repetitional damage CDG, GCC and individual employees/barristers as well as Stonewall have suffered for not recognising gender critical beliefs as illustrated by Maya and Alison’s Tribunal hearings.

foxinatutu · 13/07/2022 16:30

Great news OP.

I speak put at work on a regular basis and did so at my previous employer too. Both not especially woke businesses so it wasn't that hard to do and also once I did it and had no negative repercussions it became easier. I am in my 50's and fortunate that my employer needs me more than I do them so that's liberating too.

I've just refused to answer an employee 'best companies to work for' survey because the first question asks my gender identity. This gave me the opportunity to raise the issue with my line manager and immediate team (who already know my views and haven't disagreed) as well as my second line manager to whom answer rates on this survey are really important as they're measured on them.

My second line manager immediately had a 30 minute conversation with me about it. He had no idea about the issues and though he came up with the usual tropes he listened and I know it's challenged his thinking. He's even sent me a couple of links to relevant articles he's since seen on his new feed!

I'm about to draft an email to our Head of People who I know pretty well to explain my position to her officially. We're having a coffee catch up next week so no doubt we'll talk about it then too.

I've found people generally have no idea of the implications of 'gender ideology'. It's great to be able to make them think about it and I've never encountered anyone in real life who genuinely doesn't at least start to get it.

Good luck :-)

JoodyBlue · 13/07/2022 15:15

Hotfeetcoldfeet · 13/07/2022 07:12

I’m feeling so brave now that I’m going to ask to do a presentation to our region on GC views and feminism as part of our D&I programme…whilst the national team decide what to do with what I’ve raised. Being backed on here has made me feel excited rather than scared so thanks so much!!!

I think this is wonderful. I also understand the notes of caution that others are giving which come from a place of care. They also underline the culture we are in, in which speech is NOT free. But I wonder whether you can liaise with an organisation like Sex Matters to give a presentation to your region, so it wouldn't be your face associated with the information. I think getting the information out there would be a real balance to a D and I curriculum.

HipTightOnions · 13/07/2022 14:57

Well done for doing this, but I would also advise caution at first.

I have done similar (raised questions like yours, not made a presentation!) and it has been a very bumpy ride.

smithsinarazz · 13/07/2022 14:57

Well done. I think there are a fair few of us who want to do something similar! Good luck :)

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 13/07/2022 14:44

Congratulations and well done, OP. Lots of good information here. I'd just add a note of caution and make sure you have all your back-up in place before doing a presentation. It's illegal to discriminate against you openly, but enemies can make your life, and job, difficult in many underhanded ways. Do discuss this all fully with Sex Matters and other experts before taking a risk.

It's already good that you have spoken up.

Roseglen84 · 13/07/2022 09:59

Horizons83 · 13/07/2022 09:16

Honestly OP, I wouldn’t rush to do this. Lots of people on here will say it’s great and push you to do this: very easy to do from behind a screen when there is no comeback on them.

Raising the issues to your management is a good idea, but I think jumping straight in to a massive presentation really puts you out there.. it’s easy to get caught up in the atmosphere of this board but you have to protect yourself first.

I've gotta say, I agree with this. As much as it's great you are pushing back, I think you need to be strategic with it, or else you may end up having a target on your back.
Instead could you arrange one to one meetings with some managers that you trust or get on well with? Try and get them onside by talking about the Equality Act and recent tribunals etc. get them to see the liability in ploughing ahead with genderwoo without considering the implications for female staff.

You need support to fight this, otherwise you will just be one person who can easily be dismissed.

MagpiePi · 13/07/2022 09:46

Well done!

Are you confident that the person putting together this material will actually raise it with more senior staff, or will it conveniently slip their mind?

Horizons83 · 13/07/2022 09:16

Hotfeetcoldfeet · 13/07/2022 07:12

I’m feeling so brave now that I’m going to ask to do a presentation to our region on GC views and feminism as part of our D&I programme…whilst the national team decide what to do with what I’ve raised. Being backed on here has made me feel excited rather than scared so thanks so much!!!

Honestly OP, I wouldn’t rush to do this. Lots of people on here will say it’s great and push you to do this: very easy to do from behind a screen when there is no comeback on them.

Raising the issues to your management is a good idea, but I think jumping straight in to a massive presentation really puts you out there.. it’s easy to get caught up in the atmosphere of this board but you have to protect yourself first.

sashh · 13/07/2022 08:55

WOW OP

Good for you.

Have you heard of Debbie Hayton? A transwomen who is GC. Find her on twitter and then look up some of her writing.

Hotfeetcoldfeet · 13/07/2022 07:12

I’m feeling so brave now that I’m going to ask to do a presentation to our region on GC views and feminism as part of our D&I programme…whilst the national team decide what to do with what I’ve raised. Being backed on here has made me feel excited rather than scared so thanks so much!!!

OP posts:
sashh · 13/07/2022 02:38

The fact you don't put your head above the parapet will give your words more value.

You are right, and you have the law on your side.

Abitofalark · 13/07/2022 02:35

You're not in the CPS by any chance? I've seen some of their material so I could well understand your concern if you worked there.

FrancescaContini · 13/07/2022 02:21

McDuffy · 13/07/2022 01:44

Well done 👏
I've done it too. Got summoned by our EDI Head for a chat and was nervous (before Maya's judgement) but she was on-side and roped me into a consultation working group to ensure balance.

This was an excellent outcome of speaking out!

SunshinePie · 13/07/2022 02:20

👏 well done, it takes courage to speak alternative views. I’m learning to speak my mind, esp on MN, there is a lot of backlash but the more you do it the easier it is to ignore the ignorant ppl.

McDuffy · 13/07/2022 01:44

Well done 👏
I've done it too. Got summoned by our EDI Head for a chat and was nervous (before Maya's judgement) but she was on-side and roped me into a consultation working group to ensure balance.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 13/07/2022 00:56

IShouldBeWriting · 12/07/2022 22:16

Well done HotFeetColdFeet.
As an incurable speaker-outer I can promise you that at some point various people will come up and whisper in your ear "thank you for saying that".
Whispering thank you across the ether now.

I’m going to be one of those people right now.

Thank you for doing that!

By speaking up, you will have a positive impact on the women around you and those that follow after you. We need as many people as possible to speak up about this. Thank you.

IShouldBeWriting · 12/07/2022 22:16

Well done HotFeetColdFeet.
As an incurable speaker-outer I can promise you that at some point various people will come up and whisper in your ear "thank you for saying that".
Whispering thank you across the ether now.

JacquelinePot · 12/07/2022 21:35

Well done, op. It shouldn't take courage to state the flippin' obvious but it does, and you have shown courage, so well done.

Sex Matters is a good shout. If you have a ReSisters branch nearby you could contact them for irl support.

JoodyBlue · 12/07/2022 21:30

Well done for standing up for the rights of others not to have to use compelled speech and to be able to consider ideas freely. You are supporting other people to do this, many of whom may be anxious about going against the zeitgeist.

Now, try to relax. You have raised an issue. It is perfectly reasonable, logical and in line with the thought process of many many people. Don't consider yourself a bad guy here. Try to be business as usual.

If there should be any comeback - your position is now legally supported and you are in good company.

Also celebrate your courage. In a culture in which many won't stand up for the rights of others to speak freely - you did. That is something extraordinary. Flowers

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