Penny Mordant as PM - nooooooo...

What compromise are you asking the TRA to make? To let women have sports and a very few spaces? No, transwomen are not women and do not belong in ANY female spaces, intimate or not.

So basically you’re saying ‘be kind’? Why? Again, why should women give up their spaces, their language and their ability to name themselves? Gay people weren’t demanding to invade any other groups spaces, sending rape and death threats to people who did not agree with them, and demanding other people literally erase themselves for their benefit. So no, there is no comparison. I am tired of people using LGB rights and LGB people to make women submit to the trans agenda. No

Thanks! I do try to stay in 'Careful Now' territory.

It's a worrying time. Mordaunt is clearly a believer in Trans ideology, and the average person doesn't even realize it. I absolutely don't want her to lead.

But based on this evening the likely alternative would appear to be Sunak - and I'm convinced if he gets in, Starmer and the TWAW brigade will win the next election, and be even worse with the full backing of parliamentary Labour.

It feels like we're going down this dishonest, dystopian road regardless. It's SO depressing.

Hello @JulesJules very nice to meet you on here! Thank you for reading it.

Thank you @EleanorScott, brilliant article. You were a whole lot more generous than I'd have been.😀

We don’t get any benefit-just as straight people have no direct benefit from gay marriage. But I’m old enough to remember the horror when gay marriage and the idea gay people could be normal and not deviant was absolutely shocking. Yet it’s benefitted us all indirectly-people want to feel accepted and part of society whoever they are.
I think things have become polarised. Grant Shapps had the right idea when he said he’s not interested in policing what people call themselves. Yes, I do believe TWAW but not the same as someone who was born a woman. I think there does need to be protected areas-sport and intimate space. And I think that sensible compromise can work. In reality the bogeyman of men pretending to be trans women so they can attack women is massively exaggerated. Men don’t seem to have a problem attacking women by being men.

I hope it's OK to link to something I've just written.

eleanorscottarchaeology.com/els-blog/2022/7/12/the-unease-around-penny-mordaunt-a-mumsnet-explainer

It's on my archaeology website but I do a bit of politics as well.

@Subbaxeo · Today 18:21
Re the last part of your post,

Btw, I’m far more interested in their economic reasoning, healthcare reform and investing in education.

For me TWAW, and the infiltration of non speak into every public body speaks of inability to reason and analyse in general. The shutting down of debate has been authoritarian. The physical and mental health of children has been put in danger through the ideology, and its creep into ‘affirmation’ only policy and gender identity teaching in schools. It is so dire that people may hate to think of their children even going to school to get indoctrinated but don’t have an alternative.

A lot of it has happened under this government, (though GRA Tony Blair) and has been happening even more in the US. Canada. Australia and on the Continent. But some among this government have started to listen and have pressed the pause button. Not so Labour. Lib Dems and Greens. They have dug in.

It is amusing to see her do a desperate U-turn

I wonder if other politicians who have said TWAW are beginning to question the mantra?

Stonewall wasn't even about that for many years. (But even then it was essentially a male movement not least because the law affected men.) And I don't know which people where are supposed to have been thinking about medical treatments. That wasn't around much either. Women taken in; in principle, though, anyone can be taken in anywhere but in any case this is about a political party and ethos and that's where these women were operating. I didn't say they didn't care.
Didn't think about the implications for women and girls is something else. Feminism means different things wherever. Everyone knows about parties and party lines and expectations and how people don't necessarily think but go along. How anyone came up with the vague and poorly written and defined Gender Recognition Act is a good example of failure to think, analyse, recognise implicatons, reconcile with other laws, refine drafting, use precise and consistent terminology and so on. Parliament mostly wasn't thinking.

Well that's weird. They certainly "look" trans and said they thought they were a girl as a child, but also on the interview said they were born with male and female biological features. But whether trans or DSD they certainly weren't neutral as Evan asserted.

SW had a huge amount of credibility for many years.

People thought that if doctors were recommending these medical treatments, they must be scientifically supported.

Lots of the women on FWR were taken in, some for a long time, do you think it's because they didn't care about women too?

I suppose a question is, if she were to get the leadership, how strong a PM would she be? Would she control the cabinet or would she be having to placate her MPs?

I too think she's going to win and I'm worried as I think she's a liar. Unfortunately, as I suspected, Tory party members do not have the trans issue high enough up the agenda.

Has she said anything about conversion therapy? If she includes trans in this her position will be clear.

No. That's back to front. Going beyond what is presented to them...The point being that they didn't think about women and children and the implications for them before running along following the male Stonewall agenda, which is very strong within their party.

So women give up their language and spaces, what do transwomen give up? What benefit do women get from this compromise?

I don’t mind her and am not a Tory. To me, Trans women are women-however some areas should be protected and have exemptions as in sport, intimate spaces etc.
Just as we have certain professions exempted under the Sex Discrimination legislation. I know that would upset certain activists on both sides but surely sensible compromise is the way forward? Btw, I’m far more interested in their economic reasoning, healthcare reform and investing in education.

Daily Mail article with more info and preop photos: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3163747/Master-Hunt-woman-age-54-marks-day-man-going-bowling-enjoying-burger-sons.html

A reference regarding dubious claims to be intersex on the part of transwomen. The only thing I could find on a brief search was on Google Books, hence the screenshot!

I don't think the reference gets at the real reason for this behaviour, honestly, but at least it documents that it is relatively common.

According to this, lived as a man until aged 54 and fathered two sons: eachother.org.uk/woman-trans-past-define-who-i-am/

Also www.lgbtconservatives.org.uk/news/idahotb-my-story-sue-pascoe

Trans not DSD, it would appear. Even if there may have been minor cosmetic issues (who knows???) still functionally male.

Sue Pascoe's bio is at conservativewomen.uk/articles/about-sue/ Even having read it, I have no idea if she's trans or has a DSD. Confused and confusing.

So Evan wots-his-name really thinks that DSD and trans are the same thing, or what is even worse described this person as a "neutral" view.

Please could we all contact Radio 4 to complain? Even Stonewall has now said people with DSDs do not come under their umbrella and that this was at the request of people with DSDs.

Evan is very ignorant about the issues related to trans really concerning people.
He probably thinks it is all unreasonable “hate”. and is probably a misogynist at heart.

Sorry, so angry that I can't even post coherently. Hope you get my drift....