Daily Mail: Young female detransitioner

@beautyisthefaceisee

'Truscum' is a slur that gets thrown at people who believe you need some sort of dysphoria to be trans.

I've (hopefully!) attached 3 images that show both sides of the debate.

The original image was widely circulated by the traditional trans camps mocking the 'tucutes' (trans people, mostly girls, who identify as trans but present as the gender that aligns with their sex)

The second 2 images are some of many that were created in opposition to the first and in support of this growing movement of non-gender-non-conforming trans people.

If you're not confused by now, you're doing better than I am!

*I'm not a fucking troll. and troll hunting is banned on MN, as is enciting a pile on, which your post may well do with your complete misrepresentation of me.

I just have a different opinion.

I'm not sure why you've written paragraphs about TRA's when that has nothing to do with anything

"Time and space for children"? When? Where? All I see is denial, mocking and sneering. I certainly don't see that.

Btw I agree about safe spaces. Is that allowed, or with my hairy hands must I stay in the TRA corner?*

Who was “hunting” you? Not me! Just pointed out that you’ve made a number of assertions that clearly paint feminists as “the other side.”

You’ve said, in a number of comments, that this “other side” are to blame for making life too difficult for trans men and trans women, and that this is why they take steps like sourcing puberty blockers and destroying healthy breast tissue.

I pointed out that feminists are not the group pushing a harmful agenda on pre-pubescent children, nor the ones who are advising them, on Reddit and other forums, on how to lie to parents, physicians and/or how to illegally source body-destroying medications.

If you come on to the part of the site which is specifically to discuss these issues from a feminist perspective, and yet describe feminists in terms of showing no empathy, calling them the “other side” etc, then you’re going to get some pushback. Hairy hands or not.

I agree.

I see you are still instructing me what to do.

I never said working with teenagers makes me sympathetic!

I said I work with teens so of course I have knowledge of their brains and cognitiive abillity. That's a fact

Reacts like what to a teen? and I'm just what?

1. I've said repeatedly she shouldn't have had the operation
2. I've said repeatedly she couldn't and didn't give consent
3. I've said repeatedly it should have been stopped

All I said, which aparently is the most controversial view ever, is THE SURGEON IS NOT AT FAULT and therefore cannot be sued!

Legislating or creating policies for 'feelings, wishes and dreams' is difficult and potentially dangerous.

Every authority/governing body needs to step back from the feelings and take a science/data view to policies.

Lots is said about high suicide rates and risk of murder amongst the trans community. This is not supported by data, there is also little in the way of good quality research about sports, prisons, crime rates etc.

So use what we know.

If a 12/13/14/15/16/17 year old walked into their GPs or a private plastic surgeon and said I want a breast enhancement as would feel more comfortable with bigger breast or labiaplasty as think I'd have better and more sex would they say yes? If a 12/13/14/15/16/17 yr old said, I'm comfortable with my gender but would like to be chemically castrated as don't like the sensation of an erection and really don't think I'll ever want to use it, would that be allowed? If a 12/13/14/15/16/17 said, I'd like puberty blockers as want to remain a child indefinitely, I've always loved Peter Pan stories, would the doctors hand over a prescription or explain why puberty is a necessary function and the risks of not having one?

If you remove the trans issue from the medical consultation and just look at the medications and surgeries, they would be red flag requests. Either outright refused or referred for counselling.

I'm not saying that at no point should a person be able to medically transition, but I am saying that the policies need to be risk averse, they need to start with a 'let's rule out other factors' starting point, just like they would for any other physical or psychiatric condition and they need to be explicit in the need to outline consequences/side effects so that fully informed consent can be obtained.

Don't say ANYTHING about how you work with teenagers so can automatically class yourself as sympathetic.

Anyone who reacts like that to a teen is just....

Ye gods. She had a double mastectomy at 15. Consent? What "consent"? Consent more than the ability to say the word "yes"!

And we haven't even got on to the side-effects of the "puberty blockers". Can a 13 year old consent to treatment that may cause lifelong bone problems?

Many more people need to start asking why these drugs and surgical interventions are being pushed into children.

Whose benefitting from this?

What's their motivation?

In the case of females, puberty blockers do not help them "pass" in the future - in fact the reverse in terms of height development.

The fact that the vast majority of children on PB's go on to take CSH's also demonstrates it does not alleviate their dysphoria.

So who might possibly want to advocate the exploitation of children to create a beneficial narrative for their own benefit?

Thik somewhere upthread Beauty has said pretty much exactly that.

Sorry if I've missed this in the article. Is there a mention of her parents?

Interesting a therapist said she didn't understand. It should have been stopped at that point.

Oh yes, he'd get sympathy. Detransitioners always do, as they are making the 'right' choice. He wouldn't before that though.

No, I don't think it's possible, and I actually agre with you.

The only thing I disagree with posters on is that feminists, or the "Other side" dont play some role in this. We all do.

The thing is, the reason we assume she didn't know/understand the risks is because it's such a mad concept to us (and I do agree) that someone would do that that we assume she either didn't know or didn't understand.

Maybe she did, and was still willing to go ahead.

As I have said repeatedly, rather than pointing at the surgeon who has not done anything wrong, we need to look at why we as a society have people willing to take the risks. Same as the examples of breast augmentation and teeth surgery etc etc.

@beautyisthefaceisee I disagree that there would be no sympathy for a male detransitioner who had had surgery or any medical treatment at such a young age.

What are your thoughts around informed consent- do you think it's possible for a teenager to give it for these procedures at the moment? You say that young people are rushing into these procedures due to feeling pressured, but surely that's an argument to not allow treatment until they are older and more able to make the decision carefully and considering the negatives?

But he did.

The fact she now regrets it / we don't agree with it doesn't change that.

Could you apologise for calling me a troll please?

Absolutely nonsense.

Yes, these boards are known for "nothing but compassion". Not.

Young males (young transwomen) do't get a look in. 99 percent of the conversation is about transwomen, usually in America, with shocking headlines, transmen get a mention when they detransition and young transwomen might as well not exist.

I can't believe you typed that with a straight face.

Btw "led up the trans garden path" is nit compassionate - it's patronising and arrogant.

Sorry, that was to Beauty

If the man (or woman) who performed the surgery on them didn’t take the time to check the patient understood the procedure, really understood the risks, (tissue damage, scarring, rejection of the implant, implant bursting, potential cancerous growth, lopsided breasts etc etc etc) and that she was mentally competent to make the decision, then yes there should be liability attached.

Same as for extreme body modifications, teeth sharpening or anything else which is not medically necessary IMO

What's "truscum?"

You make an interesting point.

I recently met someone who is a transman yet presents entirely female and I would say very, very feminine. It is a good job I had the heads up as I wouldn't have had a bloody clue.

Posters on MN generally have nothing but compassion for young people who are led up the trans garden path, including young males. Not sure what you are going on about tbh.

I think I've posted something similar before, but I think the younger generation, i.e. those who are just entering secondary school, are already starting to take trans in a different direction to the previous generation. Their 'trans' is firmly identify based and uncoupled from body dysmorphia, hormones and surgery.

According to this new generation you do not need to modify your body, or even dress in a particular way to be trans. Anyone who disagrees is denounced as truscum.

They still hate TERFs, but they also deeply resent the older trans people who they see as hopelessly old fashioned and in thrall to transmedicalism.

In my opinion, the whole movement is starting to eat itself.

I'm not a fucking troll. and troll hunting is banned on MN, as is enciting a pile on, which your post may well do with your complete misrepresentation of me.

I just have a different opinion.

I'm not sure why you've written paragraphs about TRA's when that has nothing to do with anything

"Time and space for children"? When? Where? All I see is denial, mocking and sneering. I certainly don't see that.

Btw I agree about safe spaces. Is that allowed, or with my hairy hands must I stay in the TRA corner?

I don't agree with breast augmentations.

If a young woman has a boob job and regrets it, whos fault is it? The man who performed the surgery?

I'm not blaming feminists solely, but I think they are hypocritical at times and completely blinkered. I'm blaming all of us, all of society. It's not hard to follow, you just don't agree. And that's fine!

I personally think they should be at least 21, having had numerous sessions wiht various medical professionals to assess their mental state etc. They should hve have to live with the appearance they want (on the outside, obviously) for a number of years. However, we can't do that because of the barriers in their way. If we want people to stop taking such drastic measures, we need to look at our part.

It's interesting that most trans threads consist of "we say no" "i dont believe in it" and general mocking and sneering.

This is the most compassion I've ever seen towards a trans person on MN. Hardly surprising she's a female detransitioner. If it was a male detransitioner, it would be along the lines of "see he had motives all along" etc. There certainly wouldn't be the sympathy and compassion shown here.

I wasn't specifically.

Transmen get largely ignored in the debate.

I'm not hard to understand, people are just trying to pick me apart when the repeated point I am making is perfectly clear.