Is CIS a legal term?

beautyisthefaceisee

My transman friend is upset by the fact that people say things that eradicate his identity and frankly make him feel shit about himself. Why? He's a good person and doesn't deserve that.

Is your friend upset that people accept that he is a transman or that people don't accept that he is a man?

No, because that is discussion within the topic. That is the same as discussions on safe spaces and prisons etc, which I'm on board with.

I don't believe there is a god. I fully accept that others do.

Equivlent

I'm not trans. I fully accept that others are.

The literal equivalent would be me saying "there is no such thing as Christians".

Are you transgender? No? Then you're cisgender. There's nothing offensive about it.

No. It's redundant outside your ideological belief system. If it just meant "non-trans" then "trans" as an adjective would modify the word "woman" which means adult human female, to be an adult human female who identifies as the opposite sex, ie a "trans man". But it doesn't just mean non-trans, does it.

I don’t think @beautyisthefaceisee is at all stupid. I think she’s a good faith proponent of her position.

Note to self

Don't argue with stupid people or flat earthers

No humans can't change sex

Trans isn't about changing sex it's about having an internal image of yourself that means you think you should be the other sex. That internal image is what gender identity seems to be

No matter what you do no one will ever actually be the other sex

At least one transman has died by refusing to accept This reality

@beautyisthefaceisee I’m sure your friend is lovely. Can you explain what you mean by “eradicating his identity”?

@beautyisthefaceisee as an atheist presumably you think it's reasonable to discuss on an atheist or humanist discussion forum things like whether church schools should be allowed, or whether there should be bishops in the House of Lords, or whether there should be a state religion that the monarch is the head of. Do you think that discussing those things is hurtful to those with a religious belief? That it literally eradicates their identity when atheists say there is no god or gods?

genuinely interesting point re self ID>

You dont know my friend, so please stop being so bloody rude.

He doesnt want to control anyone.

I just think there but for the grace of god that you and I dont have to deal with the pain that goes on inside him.

Cool. I can call you all cisgender then, right? You can't tell me not to.

Do you really not see this?

*Feminists literally deny the identity of trans people.

So excuse me if I'm not up in arms about them being offended by cisgender.

re your second point, I agree.

I think if we could agree a climb down on the conflation of sex/gender, protect some single sex spaces and let everybody choose their own descriptors and whether they wanted to stipulate pronouns or not, a lot if the rest would calm down.

I don’t remember anybody feeling the need to comment on whether sex changes were literal transubstantiation until the selfID band-wagon got rolling. Feminists are going back to asserting basic principles as a defence against the madness.

Yes, you do. with the "humans cant change sex" debacle what you are effectively saying is trans isn't a thing, and you know it.

I'm an atheist, but I don't insist on belittling others.

Why are you mentioning trans activitists? They're irrelevant here.

We don't deny their identities

It's just that woman actually isn't an identity it's just a statement of fact

Adult human female

And it's a useful statement of fact because it enables us to better look after the health of the whole population, to identify who is likely to be discriminated against and why

identity all you like but identity doesn't make you anything

Your identity is about your own internal view of yourself , you can't force the world to accept it

You can't identify as. Nurse - you need the training and external validated proof

My transman friend is upset by the fact that people say things that eradicate his identity

If your friend is upset and feels 'eradicated' because people say no to your friend applying to them words, concepts and politics they don't choose and disagree with? And that your friend's identity can only exist if others enable and comply with your friend in the way your friend wishes?

Your friend is upset by a failure to control other people. The negative behaviour is not on the side of the people saying no. The only person your friend is entitled to control and choose words and labels and concepts for is themselves. Their power ends there.

The emotional coercion of all this is really quite plain. The answer is no.

This! Thanks @GreenWillowAndCatkins.

My transman friend is upset by the fact that people say things that eradicate his identity and frankly make him feel shit about himself. Why? He's a good person and doesn't deserve that.

I personally don't believe in "identity" as a meaningful way of categorising women and men into groups. It's that simple. I'm sorry your friend finds it difficult that people stubbornly insist on scientific facts rather than the narrative trans activists think everyone should follow, regardless of the harm it does to others, but there it is.

@onlywhenidream my trans friends dont want to be more important. they want to be equal (not re safe spaces, before anyone starts). they just dont want to be mocked and belittled.

I say it is.

Get over yourself if you find ciswomen offensive.

See the problem? This will never be resolved in our lifetime.

I know we totally disagree, but I did laugh at that.

Feminists literally deny the identity of trans people.

So excuse me if I'm not up in arms about them being offended by cisgender.

re your second point, I agree.

hence the "humans cant change sex" which should be the feminist boards' motto.

I quite agree. Maybe we could suggest a sticky post to MNHQ.

It isn't any of the above. It's a fact (You like facts).

My transman friend is upset by the fact that people say things that eradicate his identity and frankly make him feel shit about himself. Why? He's a good person and doesn't deserve that.

And he'd be the first, as pointed out by PP, to defend your right to single sex spaces. As would I.

It is ridiculous to say that somethings should not be said because they are hurtful?

Exactly

What is the battleground of the “budging” and “suffering@ as you see it? Not whether women all have to submit to bing labelled cisgender whether they are or not?

Honestly, if we could all just agree that new concepts and ideologies need new terms and words, instead of existing words being repurposed and subverted, half the conflict would dissipate.