Not sure about this

The usual gobbledegook- it is meaningless trip.

Male, not make, obvs.

They'll just call us 'cis', or 'womb-carriers', or 'birthing bodies', but will magically still know who to prevent from abortions, in the States, or to sack due to the pregnancy.

Exactly. It isn't trans ideology which got women the vote, equal pay, access to legal abortion, the pill, etc. These were fought for decades ago, by the very feminists who weren't all stereotypically 'feminine' by any means, but my goodness were they female. The same ones, and their daughters and granddaughters, that the trans lobby are now very afraid of. Because they do not take any nonsense, and are never emulated by the stiletto wearing, heavily made up, transactivist brigade, who think being feminine is wearing a skirt and being submissive. Unless you're actually make, in which case you may display your entrenched male entitlement and misogyny along with your glitter blue eyeshadow.

The more I read that the more it pisses me off.

It implies that until the TRA's (mostly men) came along with their campaigns for 'more inclusive language' poor little women didn't realise they could opt out of having children. But now that the clever men have come along and corrected the language the silly little women know that they don't have to have babies.

Its taking credit for the work feminists have done. Look at that men taking credit for women's work and ideas. Like that's not a standard part of women's lives regardless of how 'feminine' they are.

And yes, the idea that changing the language will remove the oppression is bollox. They'll just call us 'cis', or 'womb-carriers', or 'birthing bodies', but will magically still know who to prevent from abortions, in the States, or to sack due to the pregnancy.

I will bet my house no man has ever been mistaken for a woman and sacked for having a bear gut and moobs.

It's not weird or wrong or bigoted or hateful to feel discomfort with the idea of every aspect of womanhood being colonised. Why do you assume you're the one in the wrong here?

Do you really think bisexual means anything else but 'It's not what bits they have, it's who they are as a person'. I mean I don't just go around shagging randoms either, it just means I'm attracted to both men and women (although only very few of either sex tbh)

You’re struggling because that’s meaningless word salad pretending to be profound

And by 'queer', do you mean bisexual, like me and quite a few other vipers in this board, married with kids sometimes, just like you. Is that what you mean, genuinely asking?

Datun that is an EPIC post.
Double thumbs up from me.

We're lucky we held on to the word 'mother', as thanks to the UK courts
'the definition that people who have given birth are legally mothers – regardless of gender – has been upheld.' Not for the lack of trying though www.progress.org.uk/supreme-court-will-not-hear-appeal-of-man-who-gave-birth/ (quote is from the attached article).

It's giving you a headache because it's meaningless bollocks.

Pregnancy happens because of female biology, not femininity. You say you have given birth, you didn't do this because of stereotypes or an identity, you were able to sustain a pregnancy and give birth because of your female biology, something men will never have, no matter what sort of feelings they have in their head.

Also, I was uncomfortable with any views that are considered "TERF" - what you mean 'views' like that biology actually matters?

And btw I’ve rarely been less “feminine” than when I gave birth.

‘What actually is femininity though’

It’s not femaleness. It’s the stereotypical appearance of femaleness. I could be bald, old, muscly, hairy, and still female.

You're struggling, because none of those words have definitions. Or they have more than one.

Femininity is characteristics. Like floral, nurturing, fragility, pretty.

So that's the first problem. Pregnancy has nothing to do with femininity, and everything to do with being female. Transmen give birth, butch women give birth. Entirely unrelated to femininity

Llikewise motherhood. Motherhood is the state of having given birth (adoption excepted). The only way to refuse motherhood, is to not give birth.

Womanhood is the state of being a woman. No one can acquire womanhood unless they are born female.

Gender ideology reinforces the notion that femininity belongs to women, and masculinity belongs to men. It's regressive.

Pregnancy is not feminine. It's female.

Quite apart from the fact that even if you were to impose those stereotypes onto pregnancy and birth, the last fucking thing it is, is feminine.

Femininity is cultural - it differs in different societies in different locations and over time. It's the expectations of what that society thinks women and girls should be like. Hence an individual woman might be seen and see themselves as not feminine because they don't express the required behaviours.

They want you to read the word "femininity" as "what it means to be a woman" but what they actually mean by it is "female stereotypes that anyone can adopt".

It's like femininity is a superficial "mask" to deflect, combat, hide actual female physicality.

Yes, I think so too. Femininity seems to me to be basically patriarchal in nature, aiming to trap women into either Madonna or whore tropes. Sanitised or sexualised. It's just stereotypes, and they've never done any good for women.

I've long been fascinated about how what's perceived as 'femininity' and what are the things that only women can experience - breastfeeding, menstruation, labour, pregnancy, menopause - are so at odds.

It's like femininity is a superficial "mask" to deflect, combat, hide actual female physicality.

Obviously loads of people have some aspects of 'femininity' - I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I've just often wondered why it's thought of as linked to being female. I guess we are on average smaller and slighter compared to men, so that sort of thing make sense. And maybe feminine behaviour is the flipside of aggression/violence - which is more prevalent in men. It's just weird to try and track how this filtered down to 'frills on socks'.

You are trying to make sense out of what is, really, just incomprehensible rubbish.

Motherhood is coupled to womanhood because only women can become mothers.

Motherhood isn't coupled to femininity because women who aren't feminine have been becoming mother's for fucking donkeys years.

It's just basic, boring misogyny. "Pretty little women become mummies, but I am soooo much more interesting and unique than all those boring girls (and definitely nothing like my actual mother, urgh gross) so I am being bold and wonderful by decoupling motherhood from the feminine, look at how edgy I am, yay me".

Not sure how a third degree tear, crippling PND and cracked, bleeding nipples is feminine, myself. But it's all definitely a (optional) part of womanhood.

The coupled up language of pregnant woman didn't stop me from rejecting motherhood. I had this really weird idea I could choose whether or not to have children. I've still be subjected to misogyny. Is there someone I can complain to about this or was I asking for it because I never embraced the pre requisite feminity for motherhood and I confused men.

It's absolute bollocks.

Very confusing 😕. Wtf does pregnancy have to do with femininity anyway? And of course the cis bollox.