LibDems and the LBGAlliance

There's just nothing like that happening, every decent human being knows what consent is and transwomen are exactly the same as anyone else in that respect

Why did Stonewall hire the male who used to run 'cotton ceiling' workshops which were about strategising about gaining access through lesbians knickers? Males get REWARDED for this behaviour.

Why are so many young lesbians coerced into sex with males so as not to upset them and risk the wrath of their rage?

Look at what happens when a woman says the mere word 'woman'...the male rage is off the scale. How fucking dare you suggest they are all lying.

There's just nothing like that happening,

Except for times when it does actually happen! Which is what many of those threads you decry discuss! Morgan Page was doing this 10 years ago, ffs!

What matters is 2 consenting adults have found a good partner in each other and are enjoying a happy relationship together.

Unless that relationship is mis described and used to persuade others that a man and a woman can be in a lesbian relationship. Blurring the boundaries of your own sexual preferences is fine. But using it to enforce a changed understanding of the terminology people use for themselves is not!

There is an incredibly strange obsession on Mumsnet with soundbites like "people with penises demanding or thinking they have a right to sex with lesbians" .

There's just nothing like that happening, every decent human being knows what consent is and transwomen are exactly the same as anyone else in that respect. There's nothing that differentiates them from any other population when it comes to understanding consent.

That's not to say that there aren't trans lesbians in good, happy relationships with other lesbians. There are, I count several amongst my friends. And really it couldn't be further from my mind, or anyone else that knows them minds, to obsess and fixate over what that should mean for identity or to try to dictate to them at that point how they should label themselves.

It really is pretty irrelevant. What matters is 2 consenting adults have found a good partner in each other and are enjoying a happy relationship together.

LaughingPriest

I've posted multiple times what conversion therapy is. If this conversation is too intellectually challenging for you I'm afraid I cannot help you.

Actual lol - you're just like my brother when he was copying stuff off the internet for his A-level coursework but couldn't work out how to "put it in his own words" to avoid plagiarism. Except I even gave you a yes/no question about what you are claiming to make it easy for you - and you couldn't even attempt that one!

It's ok. We can all see you're flailing about. It's the dishonesty that provides the cherry on the top of the intellectually lacking cake.

What has what happened in the 19th Century got to do with this bill?

I'm just trying to find out what LGB Alliance have done that is so wrong, as I'm pretty damn sure they are not advocating for exorcisms for anyone.

I find that men who lay claim to women's attention, women's time, women's spaces, women's labour; with no discussion, no reciprocation - are generally creeps. Men who care nothing for women.

Dittto women who are their handmaidens. I feel sorry for the,, and compassion What on earth do they think they are getting from this clearly abusive relationship?

Where are these lesbian clubs and bars you post so often about, @suggestionsplease1 ? Many of us would like to visit these legendary places.

You also seem so convinced that none of us know any actual trans people. And this: “how many are actually lesbians and how many are claiming to be and misappropriating causes and claims” — this is completely risible, given that you’ve frequently argued elsewhere that being a lesbian is an identity that one can and should be able just to self-declare into.

Only: we know full well that what you mean is men can claim to be lesbians and that’s fine; but any women disagreeing with me are not actually lesbians.

The cognitive dissonance is unbelievable. How dare you accuse women of “misappropriating causes and claims” when your entire movement is based around doing precisely that? At a time when women in the US are not even allowed to name their own loss of abortion rights without the ACLU (heaven help us) or any old trans activist coming along “online”, and scolding women that they must put “trans, nonbinary and genderqueer” people first?

On the one hand you accuse posters here of ignoring the experience of trans people; then with the other you’re invalidating the experience of any lesbian woman who doesn’t confirm to your opinion. It’s deep hypocrisy, and we can all see it. It’s not just hypocritical, but also dishonest. And it gives your argument no credit if we can see the dishonesty running all throughout.

Christ, everyone thinks banning interracial marriage is wrong. The entire point is that you made a basic error in what you claimed about this, and then just kept doubling down on it. Do no gender ideologues have any basic reading comprehension? Are you all just totally thick as mince?

We are more than familiar with genderists (a) linking to articles that not only don’t say what they claim, but often say the reverse; and (b) displaying a unique kind of bullheaded inability to understand argument on a basic level, but also doubling down on basic errors once they’ve made them. It’s not new. But the inability to adjust your argument in the face of getting something wrong is not a mark of intelligence. Being able to change your view when new evidence is presented is what real intellectual inquiry is about (as opposed to believing any random rubbish that agrees with your ideas that you can Google in a few seconds).

Bone-headed clinging to a bad argument and bad evidence does not make the rest of your points look convincing, either.

This thread has veered off topic so I'll just add that for all the wittering of the libdems do about freedom, liberty equality etc, as a former member of +25 yrs with experience at almost all levels of the party the misogyny always shone through.
Look at Rennard and the way he was protected?

Supportive and inclusive is one thing and I'm really sure that few people would wish to see trans women discriminated against etc.
But I don't understand how a lesbian could accept a trans lesbian as a sexual partner unless they were bisexual.
And I struggle with twaw as we have different struggles - trans women have benefitted from male privilege until the point they transition and that cannot be erased, hence the misogyny we see from the trans activists.

The dissembling.

Men can never be women.

The end.

Why the hell do political parties ever consider seriously that men can be women? AGPs in charge, perhaps?

It is an actual fact, men can never be women, because they have male biology and are therefore men. They do not have female biology.

Am I allowed to say this, or will I now be banned?

Men are not women, and can never be women, because they are men. Gender identity is immaterial, irrelevant.

I know this isn't directed to me but I posted something similar so I'll bite.

I spend a lot of my time socialising in the LGBT community and my work also involves a lot of engagement with LGBT in educational settings, so I can't provide evidence as such but it is manifestly clear to me that 'on the ground', in these inhabited spaces the sentiment of lesbians is hugely supportive of trans people.

I think that's because we are part of each other's worlds. Our clubs, bars, pubs, events etc involve us sharing space together, getting to know each other and when you have that connection, familiarity and shared understanding of plights you are more inclined to be supportive of each other and inclusive and to want to facilitate the well-being of each other.

The only lesbians that I'm aware if that aren't supportive and inclusive seem to inhabit online worlds, like this one. Of course it is hard to know for sure how many are actually lesbians and how many are claiming to be and misappropriating causes and claims. This is a genuine fear of the lesbians I know who are keen to dissociate themselves from GC feminism.

I would guess the sentiment exists more readily in online worlds because these people have inoculated themselves from the lived realities and potential for personal understanding of trans people. So it is far easier to get to a place of hostility and desire for exclusion because they have chosen to isolate themselves from those experiences with others and that distance makes it easier to other trans people.

Of course those lesbians (if they are actually all lesbians) can appear to be on a mission to spread this psychology to the more inclusive lesbians by berating them for accepting trans lesbians in their spaces. If they were successful in creating that physical segregation and isolation then the damaging pattern would increase, with more hostility towards trans people and more psychological segregation and isolation. But luckily, on the ground, in the community, there is huge mutual support and respect, and awareness of these attempts and they hold no truck with the vast majority of lesbians (and gay men and bisexual people.)

LaughingPriest,

I've posted multiple times what conversion therapy is. If this conversation is too intellectually challenging for you I'm afraid I cannot help you.

I'm quite comfortable that the civil service can gather reliable information on a subject area and present it in a readable report.

I'm also quite comfortable that this is does not conflict with my view that British colonies in the 19th century were wrong to ban interracial marriage.

"The constituency of GC LGB activists is still small," wrote the GC news outlet, Lesbian and Gay News, when it shut down.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/03/28/lesbian-gay-news-shut-down-david-bridle/

"Small" is one word of describing the amount of GCs in the LGB community, I would say it is "miniscule".

If that is true you clearly do not know many lesbians because the overwhelming majority are trans inclusive.

Please could you give us your evidence for this? The 'overwhelming majority' of lesbians I know (and I know a fair few) wish nothing but good things for trans people, but would not be described as trans inclusive by TRAs such as yourself.

Now of course that might be just those I know, but I'd love to see what leads you to make such a bold statement.

For someone who a few posts back was complaining about the British Empire, you now seem to have a touching faith in our “Government”. Do you even know anything about the U.K. “Government”?

—Also, lots of us on this board actually are lesbians. You’re talking to us, so now you’ve met a fair number of lesbians who don’t agree with you. How does that factor in?

I've copied and pasted what the Government define as conversion therapy a couple of times now,

No you haven't hearach. You've posted what the METHOD of doing the therapy is. Those were the words you pasted. ""The most common methods we identified....."

You have proved unable to explain the definition of the "therapy" itself. What is it? What would it look like? If you thought it made perfect sense, you would be able to explain it. You cannot. You keep copy and pasting and avoiding the question because you don't actually understand it!

Am I correct in saying that you are claiming that 'trans people want to ban talking therapies and counselling services'?

I asked this previously and you somehow ignored the question. I assume this is because you do not know the answer. Because you don't understand what you are talking about.

I'm sorry the rather dry official language I copied directly from the Government's website "doesn't make sense to you". I thought it made perfect sense.

Perhaps you could write and suggest they use simpler terms so that you can understand this complex issue better?

The Government is banning conversion therapy and trans people want to be included in the bill.

I've copied and pasted what the Government define as conversion therapy a couple of times now, if their definition is too difficult for you to understand I suggest it might be time for your to check out of this discussion.

If that is true you clearly do not know many lesbians because the overwhelming majority are trans inclusive.

I can assure you I am very much a homosexual.

I don't think this is true. All the lesbians that I know (you know, normal women, with normal jobs and normal coloured hair, who don't actually hang out in a 'LGBT community', but have proper varied friends from work, childhood, running clubs etc) are all fucking sick of trans inclusion.

You keep posting the same cut and paste text.

If you think that the LGB Alliance want people to undergo Electric Shock Treatment or Exorcism to convert them out of being trans then you are completely and utterly off your rocker. You know it is about talking to people before they make lifelong decisions about their body so enough of this nonsense.

You keep posting that they 'define conversion therapy' as: 'the common methods' (used to do it) but that doesn't really make sense. It's like saying you define a chocolate cake by 'mixing ingredients and putting in the oven'.