Julie Bindel & Sharron Davies can't believe women centre their politics around the trans issue

I’m a big fan of both women but respectfully disagree. This is a global issue where the U.K. is leading the debate. What the U.K. says and does on this issue is watched by the rest of the world. Females are 50% of the population.For example sport, the U.K. is pushing back the most on this issue forcing other countries/ sporting bodies to confront it too with clear arguments to win the debate. The U.K.’s PM matters. Boris’s comments about this went global for example.

I struggle not to find this a bit pathetic on her part. Who cares if it is "left" or "right"? Unlike sex, politics really isn't a binary.

Bindle might be more inclined to see it as a single issue choice if she had a daughter who was in the middle of it at school and there was fuck all she could do.

But I submit it's not a one issue thing by it's very nature. The thing that keeps me up most at night is the authoritarian thought control inherent in the gender woo viewpoint. Freedom of thought and expression is the number one value we have to respect to have a functioning democracy. We see this authoritarianism at work within the LP itself and we can all see the effect on universities, schools, the NHS, the police, among other places.

That isn't an attitude that will be confined to gender, people who think this way will find that acceptable across a whole range of issues.

The following of ideology at all costs, even if the population doesn't agree with it, suppressing any information that disagrees. Manipulation or ignoring science.

Does she really think that is going to confine itself to gender? And what about the erosion of trust in things like science that has happened as a result>

What about allowing lobby groups to define public policy and being generally under their thumb? Is that likely to just be SW, or will they treat other issues the same way?

And I'd also point out, that the way the LP now thinks about "progress' they are completely open to any movement or ideology claiming to represent that. There are no breaks for them on the idea of "the right side of history" because that idea can't have breaks. It has only one inexorable direction of travel.

This is a horrible, toxic set of beliefs in any political party that will inevitably lead to horrific results, however much JB or any one else prefers the Labour Party brand of global capitalism. The Tories may be less than inspiring and I would argue have been in power too long, but they are basically pragmatic rather than ideological and they listen to the public.

It's possible that she's just got her notifications set for people she follows though, which is why the responses are skewed in that way.

Me too. just look over the water at what's happening in Ireland. I want laws that represent the truth.

Argh, typo, should say Sharron.

I assumed it went without saying that even though I disagree with Julie and Sharon about this, I still support their work. Greatly respect their expertise in their specialisms. And will donate and support their campaigns around women's rights, prisons and sport.

It's possible to disagree on politics and tactics, yet still have dialogue and work together on issues.

crosstalk · Today 14:10
The Greens have an issue, too, though it looks as if there's a reverse there. LibDems ditto.

What reverse is that, crosstalk?

I thought everyone is who they say they are - isn’t that how it works?

I don't see how the other parties will make everyday better for the average Joe. We are nationally in a huge financial deficit because of Covid, Brexit hasn't helped the value of the pound and if Tory austerity measures can't stop inflation I can't see how Lib Dems and Labour will.

What would help is renationalising some of our private industries so public money comes back into the public purse, but not even Blair did this in his day, is Starmer pushing this? Corbyn offered socialist politics that would've done this but failed to win the vote.

This is actually the time to justify voting Conservative for a single issue to show other parties what they need to address.

But if we're going to get down to black and white, I'd rather have less money and more ironclad rights for women. It'd be worth it for me.

I think JB can be a bit arsey sometimes and I find her loyalty to the left quite baffling given the way they’ve treated her. But those are probably the very same qualities that led her stick her neck out in the first place, at a time when women like me were still going, ‘Where’s the harm?’.

I might not agree with her on politics any more but, as far as I’m concerned, she’s more than earned the right to be an arse occasionally.

wellyelliebee
Well they're right aren't they? It's like when people got obsessed with immigration. Look at your actual life - trans people have zero effect on me (there's one guy in work who likes to wear a skirt, he's a nice guy, good at his job, his clothing is totally irrelevant to me). What actually makes a difference is cost of living and the clowns in Westminster

Wellyelliebee, people’s concern here is
trans activist ideology undermining women’s rights and safety, and harming children and young people, not individual trans people per se.

EdgeOfACoin · Today 12:51
It's not really a 'single issue' though, is it? First there are the practical implications of adopting a TWAW stance. That would be the stuff about sports, safe spaces for women, puberty blockers etc. When balanced against the Conservative response to COVID or the cost of living crisis etc, some people will conclude that the latter affects more people in worse ways and vote for Labour.

But intrinsically tied to a TWAW stance is the denial of biological reality. A blindness to science. And this puts the Labour party on a level with anti-vaxxers or flat-earthers or denying that human activity has had any impact on the climate. Voting Labour would be voting in an anti-science government.

Then you look at the authoritarian stance of those in charge: "it should not be said" that only women have a cervix (Starmer). "TWAW" (Sadiq Khan). The bullying of Rosie Duffield. The belief that some women's groups are hate groups. The refusal to engage with those of an opposing view. You're in a position of voting in a party that doesn't believe in free speech or freedom of expression. (Actually, I think the Tories have been fairly weak on this too, but Labour seem to value free speech even less than the Conservatives.)

So for me it's not just about the immediate consequences of bringing in Self-ID or allowing male-bodied people into female sports. It is to do with everything else that goes along with subscribing to this ideology.

Are there far too many people reliant on food banks? Yes. Are there too many rapists walking free? Yes. But I consider the cost of solving those problems by voting in Labour or the Liberal (hah!) Democrats to be too high.

I agree with what you said, and particularly with your paragraph about the ‘authoritarian stance’. I find it deeply invidious. And similarly the stonewall version of ideas that lead to rewriting public information and resources, inserting some ambiguous words, outlawing others. It is a manipulation of language for thought control akin to Russia’s phrase ‘special operations’.

I couldn't agree more.

Which is why these plop and run posts don't tend to work.

And yes, don't shut up!

^^
This.
Well said.

I agree

just wanted to reply to @Datun - am keeping eye on thread, but working same time, so prob about to go quiet for a bit. I too am grateful for Julie and all she does. Really, really grateful and supportive and awe inspired really. And simultaneously I feel told off by her today and it smarts - she did write that tweet!. Still, I am old enough and ugly enough to cope with a bit of a smart. But I never likely to shut up - not really my style 😁 I agree, many would love women to start in-fighting, I'm not about to start doing that.

Yes. I said exactly this earlier on about a recent article she wrote. It felt quite weird actually.

I'm generally supportive of Bindel but looking at her responses to people on that twitter thread. Kisses for Suzanne Moore and Sharron Davies, polite replies of disagreement to Malcolm Clarke and a couple of other men, dismissive, rude replies to a few women. Ignores the rest of the women disagreeing with her. Not impressed at all. It reminds me of a TRA thread. God save us from purity spirals.

I'm not remotely concerned about trans issues, or worried about trans people who just want to live their lives.

Self ID and the dogmatic approach that TWAW allows men into female spaces

Men who can be men one day and women the next. Who can change in woman's changing rooms with their beards and their erect working penis and we just have to accept it. Men that can decide they are women when the realise they are going to prison but then go back to living as a man once they are released.
Rape support groups that are all mixed sex because having a female only group is 'transphobic'

It isn't a trans issue, it is a woman's issue. I am not a Terf, I am a Merf. Male exclusionary radical feminist

Hold on a minute, you're all arguing about a premise, but the premise hasnt been proven.

Why says we are centering our politics around the trans issue? Who is saying we're unable to care a lot about multiple things at once?

I know I'm quoting myself, but I want to add that I feel far more manipulated by people who are trying to divide us, than the words of someone else whose priority is women rights, but just disagrees with how to go about it.

I don't think so, his statement a few months back was very carefully worded indeed.

I know. Personally, it's not whether I agree with her or not, I know she has often said things that I wouldn't agree with.

But I'll give her all the credit in the world for what she has devoted her life to, and that is not diminished by me disagreeing with her over other things.

What is pissing me off is the blatant attempt to divide women on the trans issue , on the basis of other things they disagree about. I'm not falling for it.

Julie Bindel and Sharron Davies agree 100% with the consensus here about the trans issue. And are fighting alongside us. Julie has taken on Nottingham County Council, and Sharron has made spectacular progress with sport.

And all of us are fighting for women's rights.

Whilst I'm busy trying to persuade people about how important the trans issue is, by God, I'm grateful that there's someone else out there helping women exit prostitution add highlight male violence.

We can't all do all of it. We have to prioritise. And we all have different politics.

I'm not going to get upset with someone whose priorities are different to mine, when all of our priorities are about women.

Moot point for me.

Am not a conservative party member so I won't have a vote on the next PM.

None of the parties represent my views on women in any case. So if I only voted on this one issue, I would have nobody to vote for.

Conservatives know what a woman is. Because how can you discriminate against a class if you can't define what that class is?

The rest are TWAW.